Blunden was a disappointment
The Hawks had such high hopes for winger Mike Blunden, who they traded to Columbus on Saturday for winger Adam Pineault.
Blunden was drafted 43rd overall in the second round in 2005 and had size (6-3, 209) and a goal-scoring touch in juniors. But Blunden scored only 3 goals in 37 games at Rockford after scoring only 16 last year. He appeared in 10 games with the Hawks with no points.
Not every high draft pick is a hit, and Blunden was a definite miss.
Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews aside, the Hawks have had many of their draft picks turn into key players on this year's team such as Duncan Keith (second round), Brent Seabrook (first round), Dave Bolland (second round), Adam Burish (ninth round), Dustin Byfuglien (eighth round), James Wisniewski (fifth round) and Troy Brouwer (seventh round).
But the jury still is out on first- and second-round picks Cam Barker, Jack Skille, Corey Crawford, Bryan Bickell, Dan Bertram and even Akim Aliu and Kyle Beach.
Do the Hawks scout as well as some other teams? Good question. Their history says no, but Kane and Toews have helped make up for a lot of mistakes.
Perhaps Pineault turns into another Sharp or Versteeg and all will be well.
i have to agree that the environment in chicago was not positive for alot of our picks. if vorobiev or yakubov had been drafted by another team,namely detroit,they might have turned into good players. if i got picked by the hawks ten years ago i would not be thrilled with my team. the guys we drafted didnt ever play like they were thrilled to be playing in the nhl. toews, kane played like that last year,even when www was still alive, versteeg this year is playing like he doesnt want to leave. comes down to environment and that winning culture attitude that we still dont have yet. getting there though.
The 29 other teams with the exception of Detroit.
I suspect if we analyzed each team's draft in the last 10 years we would find some big names they passed up. Detroit seems to be the only team that can consistently find gems despite having horrible drafting positions.
To be sure the Hawks scouts were not good. The scouting staff remained unchanged for many years under Mr. Wirtz Sr.. This led to picks which were:
1) willing to play in Chicago
2) willing to accept the pay in Chicago
3) were good hockey players but not accustomed to living in the 3rd largest city in North America. The Hawks had no program to welcome and integrate the players into the team and the city
5) Oh yeah the Hawks farm team moved several times during those years including the end of the earth or at least the end of North America, Moncton which is 1500 miles away and 3 plane transfers to get to Chicago
6) the Hawks did not spend money on their farm system and scouting system
Under Rocky and the new management that is changing. We will have to endure some top picks not working out. Wait for the drafts of 09/10/11 and you will begin to see some real changes.
I will give Dale and the rest of the staff slack for at least a couple more years. Besides the real gems sometimes come later in the draft Larmer (120th in 1980). Who did the Hawks take before Larmer
1) Denny Savard (3), Jerry Dupont(15), Steve Ludzik (28), Ken Solheim (30), Len Dawes (36), Troy Murray (57), Marcel Frere (58), Brian Shaw (78), Kevin Ginnell (99), Larmer (120), Sean Simpson (141), Jim Ralph (162), Don Dietrich (183), Dan Frawley (204).
Who did the Hawks pass up to take Dupont...ie the picks between Dupont and Ludzik...
Brad Palmer, Brent Sutter, Berry Pedersen, Paul Gagne, Steve Patrick, Mike Stothers, Joe Ward, Moe Mantha, Norman Rochefort, Craig Muni, Bob McGill, Ric Natress.
Jari Kuri was taken 69th by Edmonton
Craig Ludwig 61st by Montreal
Steve Konroyd 39th Calgary
Kelly Hrudy 38th by the Islanders
The draft is like going to the track. You have your scouting report, you know the odds, and generally the top horse win. The big payoff usually comes later. Those are the character guys who show up game after game, week after week, because no one really considered them NHL material.
Who has watched the Rockford team enough this year that can enlighten me on what prospects I should be excited for?
I check the Hawks site and try to keep tabs on the stats, but sometimes those can misleading. I did see that Marty St. Pierre has finally cracked the Boston lineup. There was a guy who can light up the AHL yet never did much in his BRIEF stints with the Hawks.
I also agree on Brouwer. It was only a matter of time. Looks to me that he and Walker have both become comfortable and Walker should sit out a game or two. He made a couple of horrible giveaways late in last night's game that can't go unnoticed.
Tkachuk has been made available. Tell me he wouldn't look good sitting in front of the net on the power play and being a HUGE asset in the lockeroom teaching some of the larger kids of how to be a productive power forward. I highly doubt ST. Louis would trade him to Chicago, but depending upon what the price would be, if I'm Tallon I visit it.
I live in Rockford. I've stopped going to the games unless I get freebies or have nothing else to do. The major talent pool of potential Ice Hogs are already in Chicago. I'd love to see Skille given the top line chances Brouwer has. Although, not going to question Quenneville too much with the job he's done. Don't know why Brouwer gets the nod though. All he's ever done is score on the Power Play in the "A". I've watched enough games of him doing nothing and then getting two garbage goals on the PP at Rockford and all of the sudden he's an AHL sniper. I've played hockey. I could score a lot of the goals this guy scores. I'm not the least bit surprised that he's not lighting up the NHL. My guess would be he's a 10 goal a year scorer. 15 tops! 5 goals in 33 games this year and 2 of them (40%!) are on the PP. And he's had "top line" guys to play with. Skille scored 3 goals in 16 games last year playing on the 3rd or 4th lines. Skille had a much better shooting percentage. +/- only thing in Brouwer's favor. I think Skille deserves a chance. If the Hawks aren't going to give it to him then move him.
Goaltending is the main reason, for me, to go watch.
While we're on the prospects subject. Can anybody explain to me why it's okay for an 18 or 19 year old to play in the NHL but you can't play in the "A" if you're under 20? What's the point. I say this because I'd love to be out watching Beach and Aliu along with Skille, Niemi, and Crawford a few times each month!
I'll just add to hp's reply.
when the NHL lowered the draft age to 18, one of the concerns that junior teams in Canada naturally had was they would lose their local "star" attractions to the pros - be it NHL or AHL...which essentially would have devastated junior hockey in canada which is obviously one of the primary sources of developing players for the NHL.
In a lot of ways, junior hockey in Canada is to the NHL what US colleges are to basketball & football - a developmental league where players have a very short career & most never move up to the pros...
but unlike colleges whose main business is education, junior hockey in Canada is purely a business and getting to be pretty big business in some cases (tho nothing compared to the billions the NCAA rakes in for its member colleges from football & baseketball). i heard recently that the London Knights (where Kane played junior for a year & which are owned by the Hunter brothers & coached by Dale) are estimated to be worth $25M, routinely drawing 9,000 fans to games at something like $15 Cdn a pop.
these junior teams would obviously like to keep their "star" players for as long as possible to develop an affinity with the fans and keep them coming, especially with the constant ups & downs of teams year after year (as with US college, junior teams go thru cycles where they may have good teams one year that graduate a lot of good players, resulting in a poor team the following year). so to support junior hockey, the NHL agreed that any kid under 20 that couldn't make his NHL team would be sent back to his junior team rather than their AHL affiliate.
as an aside, junior teams themselves draft 16 year-olds - and end up paying the players who make the teams a weekly stipend (used to be $50 a week). That small payment in the eyes of the NCAA essentially qualifies these kids as "pros" ..so once they play a minute of major junior hockey in Canada, these kids are effectively disqualified from ever accepting a scholarship from a US college...even if they get cut from their junior team later (though a lot of junior teams offer to pay players who don't go on to a pro career their university education to keep their best players playing junior...tho if the best go on to a pro career, even in the AHL, the standard contract releases the junior team from its obligation to pay for their education.
I know the basic answer to your question. Most likely many know the same as I do. TheRealWiz certainly knows and there have been some post people on this post topic from Sassone (Blunden) that likely can better explain it to you. Incidentely, I was really impressed the one post person mentioned about Blunden being on junior world forTeam Canada. Wonder if that person knows/hears any about how some junior prospects are doing/the Blackhawks site re:prospects update, is limited in its scope. Anyway, a junior player under age 20 has to go back to his junior team if he does not make his NHL team's roster. He can stay up here for 10 games played before final determination. That number is sort of an extended window to watch the particular player develop or if maybe until some other player returns from injury (whatever). Once the player returns to junior, during the same season he cannot be recalled to the NHL or AHL unless there is an emergency due to injury situation -- has to be grave scenario. When the age a player can be drafted from junior leagues was adopted many years ago, this provision about junior player's NHL elgibility was written and it is not going to change. In the examples where a junior player was able to play professional and under age 20 (this refers to US and Canadien kids), the players generally were not more than average (if that). Stefan, a first rounder, I think played in the old IHL. There were a couple others in the AHL. Bonk was in the IHL (or maybe AHL) and is a good player now for Nashville (but never became a scorer type).
Guys ive been telling HP you have to go to a few Rockford games,great price,good parking friendly people.Skille has gotten a mean streak,Niemmi shows some great stuff in goal at times.Pelletier leading the scorers,but will 5"11 190 make it?And hes a minus 3.Imo its either Pelletier or Skille for call up, if anybody.But you should really take a ride i dont think in the seven Rockford games ive been to,nobody really impressed except Niemmi
the cam barker year irritates me cause we were just not bad enough or lucky enough to get ovechkin or malkin. zajac went to jersey at 20. he fit dales scouting mo-smaller college guy but hes scoring in the nhl. andrie maszaros went to ottawa pretty late as well. barker was rated the best d in that draft though. seabrooks year as well. getzlaf and jeff carter were drafted after him. my point is how ciould you know what you wetre drafting. alexandre daigle was a cant miss prospect as well as radek bonk,victor kozlov,and many others. in rockford i like bickel and klinkhammer,both big and can skate.every time i watch a game skille puts up 3 points. kontiola is an amazing passer/playmaker. will these guys play? who knows. same thing with beach. all the skills but it seems alot has to happen for a guy to be a good player in this league. beach might play but could only be a 4th line grinder. like ladd,drafted at 4 behind barker,it takes years to become servicable and effective. if only brouwer was like luc robittaille,both really bad skaters but were considered pure goal scorers.brett hull comes to mind as well.
I agree that we have to be careful of not getting too personal, but sometimes some posts are warranted of attack based on the topic. You can't go back and cherry pick draft classes and then get fired up because the Hawks don't have a lineup full of allstars. It's ridiculous. LIke many stated below, when guys fall that far it should be realized that EVERY team, and not just Hawks, misjudged that particular player.
More importantly, this post All Star break road trip is beginning to loom large. Granted the Hawks have a very nice March schedule, but I'll take 8 pts in 8 games that spreads all over the North American continent.
Again last night was another prime example of why you can't trade Havlat/Bulin without getting something other then a high draft pick for them. Unlike Huet, Bulin made huge stops in key spots to ensure the win, and Havlat was the Hawks best skilled player as he set up Bolland on numerous chances, and created one himself.
Hope you see this before Sassone has a new post...anyway..
So maybe we should recall Bickel and see if the recall will light a fire underneath him? He could replace Brouwer and be a big banger. You would no doubt push Brouwer to be more of a physical presence, more intimidating insofar as he will check hard whenever possible. I saw how Brouwer was used on PK @ Rockford, & suspected that he could be a descent player up here. I don't know if he can ever improve his skating enough, which would give him an opportunity to become a possible top line guy. Then the question is, does he have it in him to be a consistent hard checker. Somebody has to do it, not just smaller, fourth line guys like Burrish. Ladd uses his quickness and checks, although he may never pile drive anyone into the boards. But Ladd does make some good, short passes and appears to be an intelligent player. Playing with Bolland and Havlat has been great for Ladd. See, I'll admit when I've been wrong..didn't see Ladd developing like this. Bolland is interesting because would he have come on like this if Tallon hadn't moved Lang? I don't see Lang having the success he does this year if he was on a diffeent roster. I see some really like Buff and I know HP53 projects Barker to become a top four type. Well, they have got to play regularly. Only then do we see if ther development will stall, sort of like Seabrook has. Lastly, if Steve or anyone watches Rockford games, I'd appreciate it if you notice an improvement from Davis, Bertram & even Brophey. This Klinkhammer had been scoring each game on the checking line. He was unheralded coming to Rockford, but intrigues as a big-size LW who is ornary. Maybe keep an eye on him as well. Dowell, despite poor stat's, is better than Fraser -- but is he as good as Fraser on face offs? I happen to believe Hendry can be an acceptable third pair d-man -- I like having him as a reserve. HP53, what about if Barker devlops a bit more -- like the idea of trading him, as Hjalmarsson can replace him?
the personal attacks here to bloggers continue.
Post your opinion.
Tell others why you disagree.
The idea is we all love and want our team to win a Cup.
We all drink a kool-aid, but tell and guy he should cut down his consumption, just don't cut the guy down, because then you waste my time, having to read the attcak and not the opinion, ok?
I am far too old to waste time and really want to read what you all feel and think about the hawk, not each other.
Wiz, I believe you and I are about the same age and have seen an awful lot of Blackhawk hockey. Some great, some horrible. I want to read real opinions. I don't want to listen to someone who just wants to rip someone to shreds. After all opinions are like a__holes, we all have one.
I am also really tired of reading people who just want to kick Bill Wirtz around. The guy is dead, let him be. Besides if you look back at NHL history you'll find that Bill Wirtz was quite the pioneer. Yes the sport had passed him by and he was too stuborn to change with it or relenquish the reins, but he is gone. Just let him be.
chico, I love to read your opinions especially when you back them up with facts as you usually do. If I didn't agree initially at least you gave me pause to consider your point. Don't let these guys that like to bash you have a negative effect. Just keep posting and let the crap float out to sea.
One more point, I really like Toews. To this point I do not have any regrets with this young man. I would rather he was not the captain, but I think in the end he'll come out better for it.
I try to avoid making personal attacks (unless someone attacks me first), though I suppose it shouldn't be surprising to find a little figurative "pushing & shoving" and the occasional "fisticuffs" on a hockey message board.
That said, I agree with Wiz that the personal stuff detracts from the board and I'll try to be a bit more thick-skinned when it comes to responding in kind, though I consider myself a die hard ever since I was a kid - game 7 in 71 still bothers me when I think back about it
I also enjoy reading opinions, especially ones with some rationale or reasoning to them, but any opinion that isn't a personal attack I try to respect (while reserving the right to disagree with it).
as for Toews, I too sense he is a special player, and I think he will eventually become a great captain, though I feel he was thrust into it prematurely at least in part for "marketing" reasons. imo, that is affecting his game, imo and if he isn't performing (or leading) this team on the ice the way he thinks he should be as captain, i think he takes it personally and is putting even more undue pressure on himself to do so, sort of a vicious circle..
ultimately, his performance will catch up with his expectations of himself, but imo, Tallon/Savard should have either named a more veteran player captain (campbell or sharp) or acquired a veteran to fill that role until toews had a few years under his belt to give him more time to adjust to a new city, a new league, a new team, the media, fans, etc.
I saw Wirtz behind a counter as most fans had passed by after srimmages @ Bensenville rookie camp (Kane was a rookie). Wirtz was beaming, saying Kane was going to be just like Stan (Makita). What you say in your post, lontime fan, is 100% true. While I could have said something negative about Pulford's draft record to Wirtz, instead, I wanted to be positive. I happened to think he looked not so great, beside being heavy set. He looked like a man who had been through a lot, and I don't think it was just his years adding up. So I said, it's your team, don't pay attention to what others say, do what you want. You have good people running the team. Wirtz moved his head up, but only his eyes scanned over to me. His other son (not Rocky) was guarding against any negativism, and interrupted...let's all move on now, ok, thank you for coming out here today -- something to that effect. At the time, I might add, I was watching and thinking Tallon was doing a good job with the draft. I now think that is questionable with late round picks, but in the next couple of years all those promising prospects will have to move upward on the development curve. Anyway, two months later Wirtz died. I hope what I said was a source of pride and satisfaction for a man who was upbeat and positive, although privately he must have endured a lot in his battle with cancer. Note to all: we are or soon will be at an age where we have to face something that hits a majority of men in their lifetime.
The idea prior to this hockey season was to let Hjalmarsson develop in the North American game. Though not overly thick, he has very good potential and YOU MUST have guys developing because teams will never be able to keep every dee they had the year before and pay them, so restock has to come in the form of guys you drafted like Hjammer.
Early draft years: I saw the comments about how Ivan should have taken thsi guy over this guy. That era was one where teams had lost their OWNed / sponsored farm teams in sometimes all three areas of Canada. After the sponsor ship was suppose to have ended, the teams STILL took THEIR guys, over the other available, if they thought they had salaries in place, and if they drafted outside the draft in the early rounds because a guy looked better than their more watched guys, they had to be sure he didn't want the moon in money.
Even into the 70's teams drafted based on junior owners/coaches they were comfortable with dealing with, or were friends with. Portland's coach/GM Brian Shaw was friendly with hawks...they drafted his young player Grant Mulvey, knowing that the was the WHA in a bidding war with the NHL, because they knew he was signable.
A lot more watching now. Before the players last three years would be looked at, was there improvement year to year? Let's take a chance in the late rounds.
True at 20 years old there is less chance you know what you are getting in terms of skills projection and commitment to training, hunger to succeed.
You are missing what Toews has already accomplished as young player who has had the franchise strapped to his back. Toews is good when not scoring, but NO good team would ever put a prospect in the position he was/is placed. Bryan Trottier wasn't under this type of pressure for the lowly Isles. Imagine if the money ahd been there to bring in a Jokinen to play against the big opposing scoring lines or share the load?
Heck, Jordan Staal, has he even come close to the hype with Malkin and Crosby playing ahead of him? ...and how they doing?
I may be completely off base and getting the name confused, but is this the Pinault who also played defense? And committed to a college and then opted out of the commitment? A had trouble with the coach of one of his teams, ala Aliu?
I truly hope I am thinking of another guy or maybe that guy grew up.....
I try and research this and see if I am incorrect....
It is always better to not spew like a volcano erupting if you have a different point of view. Yes, when we talk that way we are maybe speaking with our emotions. Let's just remember that we try not to take any response personal, and that we are all passionate hockey fans. Whoever coined the phrase that sportswriters are but frustrated hockey coaches, has a good handle on us, eh? Let the readers make their own determination. I want to stress, too, that I greatly respect the research and many good thoughts by all post people. For the record, I will wear an old Nordiques uniform and sit close to game time, eating a doublecheese burger at Billy Goat for the Buffalo game. Would be great if anyone is able to stop and chat a few minutes. Not necessarily more about posts, but just to say, hello, and thanks always for all your great posts.
Now...Tallon so far was best on radio, not as a GM. Sure, drafting record cumulative has been among worse in NHL over past 20 plus years...also true Steve P said you can pick apart any teams's draft record...it's a crapshoot particularly now that players are drafted underage 20 and you are surmising often about their future as compared to if they were not elgible to be drafted until age 20. I'm sure TheRealWiz could say something on this...as well as whether Blunden or Pinneault may yet develop. Blunden is going to a team with several large-size forwards who play tough, as well as some incredible talented youngsters (Brassard, a leading rookie of year candidate until injury, Mason, Voracek, and, now Filatov). Wonder if Hitch can get all to play a strong (enough) defensively...other posters have mentioned Hitch loves 1-0 games -- Mason looks like the rookie T Esposito, eh?. Well, maybe Blunden could fit in? I hate to loose any player who skates and hits, but there is always a brigade of candidates for 3/4line employment. Wiz, if you respond, please inform whether you think Hjalmarsson is an outstanding prospect...some posters may be doubtful we have much after the goalies at Rockford. And, is Lalonde progressing in junior/ability to handle rough play/could he be similiar to D Keith, but maybe less projection as a future star, but very good offensively? Worse case Lalonde a lightweight forward with ability a la Vertseeg? Oh, the Bowman's....I think despite the pro/con remarks about Scotty, his presence (as well as plethora of other in management like Dudley) -- may (stress may) prevent Tallon from making a bad trade. Hard to tell what Stan Bowman's future role is. The biggest difficulty to understand (or is it to unearth) is whether Tallon or McDough behind Huet's sign.
Well it's a good thing after last nights loss we have GM Chicohawk to keep us grounded, and save the season after two 2-game losing streaks in two weeks. T-brown good post and also to Bruno99 on the Rozner column. Chico to all the so-called "delusional fans" you took a shot at with your defense of Scotty & Q, by saying they have no-insight or knowledge about the NHL and they are blind. Well the same thing can be said about you.
Since you like to toss out numbers here is a few more. Bowmans only run as GM ended in disaster, after a good 1st year with his Sabres making the Conf. finals where they were blasted, his teams got steadily worse. The last six years of his reign only once did they get out of the first round, the last two years his teams finished dead last and didnt make the playoffs. Bowmans playoff record as GM 22-22, nothing special. As for Q, 10+ years as head coach. 1-conf final, 5-second rd. exits, 3-one and dones and one year of no playoff's. During his years as H-C against San Jose 25W-17L-2OT losses-1So loss-1 tie, which is OK but only 5-8 in the last 4 seasons including this one. Post season 1-1. Det. is another story, 13W-36L-6T-5/OTL-2SOL in reg season. Post season 0-4 5W's-16 losses. Good news is if the Hawks get to the finals and play Boston 9-1-2T's-1OTL so pour the champaign. But before you appoint Bowman (Savior) and Q (Genius) and suggest these Messiah's are leading us to the Holy Grail, you better hope they learn from the past. So far there is nothing in their track records to suggest they do.
How many cups does Bowman have not counting last year (tho he did get his 2008 cup ring presented to him by the wings at the Winter Classic)?
Who in hockey or on planet earth knows better than Bowman what it takes (in terms of players, coaching, attitude, style, etc.) to win a cup?
and your referring to Bowman's stint in Buffalo as a "disaster" is rather interesting "commentary" coming from presumably a hawk fan for all these years...and you claim you aren't delusional??
earth to sports guy...the hawks & most of their fans (other than those with their lips still firmly implanted on www's behind) could only dream the hawks for most of the past 30 years had a similar "disaster" like buffalo had under bowman...
here are some facts.... http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/774#comment-1705
you must be a close friend/relative of denis savard or joe180 or www/pulford
Good posts, chicohawk, especially on how the pressure of being named captain may be impacting Toews. I think over time he'll grow into the role and be comfortable with it, but it's a lot to ask out of a second year player. Tremendous expectations were put on this team this year, too much for a team just coming out of some of the worst years ever seen by any professional sports franchise. They have a marketing wizard in charge who is an absolute genius at selling hope in this town (how else can you explain a franchise with a 100 year and counting streak of no championships being that popular), and with that you get those who can't see the big picture, just what's placed in front of them. It doesn't help matters when you got beat writers like Sassone spewing nonsense like a Cup is possible with this current team this year. Draft picks like Toews and Kane go a long way to make everyone forget past draft blunders, but the only reason they were in the position to take Toews and Kane were because of those same draft blunders, along with other awful personnel decisions.
People can point out all they want that Bowman was a horrible GM, or Quenneville didn't win anything before he got here. But c'mon, people really believe Bowman's not an asset here, that he doesn't know anything that may help this team win a Cup in the near future? Or that the Savard firing was a mistake, and if he was still coach they'd have the magic formula to beat the Red Wings, just because they beat them last year?
I guess we'll see what happens this year and the coming years. I'm trying to enjoy watching a very entertaining and talented team play the best hockey we've seen since the early 90's, but I also realize the challenges they face with filling the final holes that may bring a Cup here, and the challenges down the road to signing all this young talent.
you summed it up very well. Regards.
Blunden was a huge disappointment. He could still put it all together with this trade being a big slap in the face to wake him up. When he plyed in the World Juniors, I thought he'd be playing full time in Chicago within a few years. But today he's struggling offensively in the AHL. This trade could very well get both Pineault and Blunden going much the same way Andrew Ladd and Tuomo Ruutu are now after their being traded for one another.
As for Toews...I can't believe what I'm reading. You guys even understand hockey? My God. I can totally see he's gonna be great. I see him blossoming offensvely in his fourth or fifth year. He's an intense guy and has alot on his platter this year. Not to mention he's doing the opposite of Kessel this year. He's focusing more on his defense first whereas Kessel focused on his offense first. I don't even think Kessel is that great defensively. Marc Savard is making him look good right now. Sure he's gifted but I'd take Toews over him any day.
Most likely, Pineault is a career AHL guy, but there's a little flavor of the Versteeg for Bochenski deal here. Columbus gets a possible third/fourth line banger and the Hawks get a guy with some scoring ability. I mean, neither of these guys are non-prospects at this point.
It is now or never -- well, next year at latest if each has a contract signed through then -- as far as Blunden and Pineault goes. The reason HOPE IS HELD OUT EVEN NOW IS DUE TO THE CONFIDANCE FACTOR. By saying "confidance ," I refer to the amount that each player has in himself. Have to not forget what potential was shown as underage in junior/college etc al when more carefree and not as concerned about each aspect of their game. But now both have enough pro experience to have figured out plenty (but not all) aspects of NHL game. As a consequence, they have to begin to put their game together. Both cannot be terrible in offensive end, but both shouldn't worry no matter their stat's this year if they know themselves that they have ability. I am just so enamorated with Blunden type even if he doesn't score much. When I see him play usually he is always hitting or acting like he has a chip on his shoulder -- yet he doesn't fight/get a ton of pk. So he is attractive as an energy player (a sometimes third/more 4th line player), or even someone you put on a top line for a few shifts just to stir things up and maybe create some chances for the top players on that line. At this time he's like Eager/but less skill shown. That's what skating and hitting can do for a player and the team he plays for. Pineault I don't have more info on beside what has already been reported, yet we'll eventually get to know what he can be now that he is at Rockford.
Yet another post with Chicohawk going on ad nauseam trying to prove what a great GM he would be. I'm shocked that no NHL team has extended him an offer to become their director of player personnel or head scout. Even more shocking that Chico isn't proposing more ridiculous trades where the Hawks dump salary and get either strong veterans or potential laden youngsters in return for our final year guys.
SteveP is exactly right, you could pick apart just about any team's draft history and slam it using examples.
Chico's comment about the team the Hawks could have if they had the gems of each draft is beyond ridiculous. Lidstrom slid to the 3rd round, Chara slid to 56th overall, Volchenkov was the 21st player picked, Brodeur and Frolov were 20th overall, Greene was 41st, Langenbrunner was 35th, Pominville was 55th, Savard wasn't taken until the 4th round and Zetterberg was a 7th rounder (!!!). So, yes, every organization in hockey could have this same team if only their GM was as smart as Chicohawk.
Besides, most of Chico's examples were pre-Tallon, so his bashing the picks doesn't indict the current regime. But let's take a look anyway . . .
In 2002, Chico points out that Hawks were idiots for taking Babchuk ahead of some guys. But he also doesn't mention that Duncan Keith was the team's 2nd rounder that year, so all of those other idiot GM's passed on Duncan. Or all the other teams that passed on Wiz, where the Hawks grabbed him in the 5th round, or Burish, who dropped to round 9. Then Chico throws in Wideman, who dropped all the way to the 8th round for Buffalo, or 6th rounders like White or Wideman. I guess every other GM was dumb too for not getting those guys.
In fact, what Chico did for each draft was go through 250 - 300 guys each year, cherry picked the best of each draft, then talk about how the Hawks were stupid to pass on them. Absurd.
In '99, 12 of the 22 guys picked ahead of McCarthy played fewer NHL games.
In 1996, there were 10 guys picked ahead of Remi Royer that played less than 100 games in the NHL.
In 1990, half of the first 18 players drafted played the same or fewer NHL games than Dykhuis. Bondra was an 8th round pick that year, so again, all of those other GM's were idiots too for not taking him earlier.
Heck, if the NHL GM's were as smart as Chico, they also should have taken Datsyuk (6th round!), Gomez, Cheechoo, Richards, Gionta, Horcoff, Samuelsson, Markov and Spacek a lot sooner in 1998 too.
Also, Tommy Ivan must have been an idiot too. In 1969 he took J.P. Bordeleau ahead of Bobby Clarke or Butch Goring. In 1971 Tommy took Dan Spring instead of Terry O'Reilly, Craig Ramsay or Larry Robinson. In 1974 he drafted Grant Mulvey over Bryan Trottier. In '75 the Hawks took Greg Vyadik 7th overall and he played five NHL games. The 1976 draft saw Real Cloutier taken ahead of Bryan Sutter, Randy Carlyle, Mike Liut and Ken Morrow.
One day there will be a special wing in the Hockey Hall of Fame for Chico. If you don't believe me, just ask Chico.
Bullseye, great post tbrown for a loooong suffering fan.The stats were great!
No he certainly wasn't, but you certainly are...and if there is an Idiot hall of fame, I suspect you were inducted long ago...and if not, you make a strong case for it with virtually every post.
here, you seem to want to defend an inept organization by turning the attention away from the hawks horrible history of first rounders since JR that i outlined, namely bennett, lecompte, nabakov, royer, yakubov, vorobiev, munro who were the complete busts...without even getting to other guys who were at best mediocre picks...
no, you don't want to discuss or compare the hawks draft record to teams that have had successful draft records over that time frame - like colorado (after they won the cup), new jersey, detroit or even philly because the hawks don't stack up, you'd rather rip into me for daring to suggest the hawks drafting has for the most part sucked over the past 30 years which is reflected in their record on the ice over most of that time.
you wouldn't happen to have worked for the hawks scouting dept?
im not impressed with j.t. yet either. i wanted the hawks to draft kessell. you think kane and kessell could have been fun? they would probibly be a better match.
There's a word for what you just posted: insane.
I am in no way, shape or form a kool-aid drinker. and I also wanted the Hawks to take Kessel, but hockey, especially playoff hockey is played in all three zones. Toews would have many more points if his game was all offense like Kessel (and Kane). I doubt there are many executives in the league who would not take Toews over Kessel.
but Kessel is becoming a more complete player under julien who benched him in the playoffs last year for that message to get across...
he is no doubt a great offensive player and at one point was the consensus #1 overall - and i suspect the ordeal he went through with cancer has turned him into a more mature person (which may have been the reason his draft standing fell).
Toews is a better two way player, but i don't think he's as gifted offensively as PK.
The fact is JT has struggled at both ends of the ice for stretches of this season - I attribute that mainly to Tallon & Savard's premature (& therefore dumb) decision to name this kid captain in the offseason (marketing campaign anyone?) and then compound the problem by having to dump the 2nd line vet center they now need to replace because Tallon mismanaged his cap room.
I think ChicoHawk has a point that Toews is being asked to shoulder a huge load, especially with so many Hawk fans watching now. But there's the whole adjustment factor too. In any pro sport, the opposition sees what you do and makes adjustments. Now Toews has to adjust. Aside from awesome talent, I wonder if Kane not having to handle captaincy and leadership is actually helping his game advance more quickly.
I have no doubt Toews is going to be just fine and has the potential to be a Forsberg-type talent. So Kessel has developed more quickly, doesn't mean that in 3 years Toews won't be his equal or superior.
i remember getting excited for eric lecompte, the forward with a tool box i recall. picked right after him was saku koivu. we then traded hasek fur c. ruuttu
Chico, you go through your long list here and you're actually refuting your own argument.
You're trying to make a point but in doing so you indict all the other teams that also passed on all of those guys.
You can go to any teams draft and do the same exact thing.
though to truly get a read on the draft records of teams, you'd have to compare all their picks and how they turned out over the years with everyone else...which I actually tried to do a few years ago (I'll have to try & dig it up - i have it saved somewhere).
The point is - the hawks have consistently been in the lower quartiles in terms of selecting
players who make it in the NHL and have a meaningful "career" - i.e. play a minimum number of 400 games). Some of that could be attributable to things that happen after the draft, poor player development , injuries, contract disputes, etc. (i.e. not the result of a poor selection..unless the team knew of an injury history or character issues, etc. which is tough to find out.)
having reviewed the hawks drafting record and compared it to other teams, it is clear the hawks draft performance over the years based purely on players making it into a minimum number of games has been subpar on a relative basis. i think the numbers bear that out and will try to dig them up when i get a chance.
Yah, I TOTALLY agree on the fact that the Hawks don't have much to show for past drafts. I just think that when you sit back and look at who was picked after, as I said, you can say that of all teams. What I'd be interested in is the guys who were picked way down the ladder, i.e. Darryl Sutter, Steve Larmer that made it past all those guys picked ahead of them. Although not interested enough to actually look it up. :-)
The problem with the NHL draft moreso than any other sport, well maybe baseball, is the age and experience level when these guys are picked. It's really a crapshoot!!! I think the best GM's in the business would probably tell you the majority of their picks are luck. Obviously there is skill involved otherwise teams like Detroit and New Jersey wouldn't have stocked themselves year in and year out.
To me the key is character. I'd take a high-character good talent guy over a low-character great talent guy any day of the week. I think the better GM's look at the "drive factor" in their draft picks. Which really gets down to character. Well, could also be greed. Guys like the Larmers and Sutters obviously had talent, but it's their drive and character that got them where they went (Denis Savard didn't hurt Larmer though either). :-)
Great comment chicohawk.
Chicohawk has been a terriific hockey commentator this year.
I personally am starting to question Toews.
He's young and still needs time. But I don't see a star player so far.
Hope he proves me wrong and takes it the next level up.
Yeah, because those 2 highlight reel goals against the Scum and the Avs could be done by just about anyone, right?
I went to the University of North Dakota when JT was there, and trust me, the kid is just getting started. He's been averaging a point-per-game pace over the last month and a half, not to mention being our #1 centerman, not to mention dealing with the undue pressure of being the youngest team captain in Hawks history.
I can totally see why you would want to question whether or not Toews has it.
Totally.
You no doubt must also have seen tj Oshie. I think this kid is going to be a good one for the Blues. He has a lot of good things about his game. He also had an injury or two this season, but should be in lineup sat in St Louis against Chicago.
were all drafted under Mike Smith's tenure as hawk GM...though to be fair, Tallon was director of player personnel for part of those drafts & presumably had some input up to 2002 (tho that would exclude Seabrook & Byfuglien drafted in 03).
The only reason the hawks got Kane was winning the lottery from the 4 spot, and because they sucked so bad for so long (including all of Tallon's original stint)...not much comfort there.
The bottom line is, every year the hawks have hyped their top draft picks (at least to those who would listen) and very few of those have really made an impact.
JT & Kane are the first first round picks since JR in 1988 had a major impact with the hawks... since then there have been forgettable names chosen by the hawks in the first round like
adam bennet (6th overall in 89) ahead of holik, sillinger, kolzig, foote, brisebois, lidstrom, federov...
karl dykuis (16th overall in 90) ahead of tkachuk, brodeur, smolinski, weight, sanderson, kozlov, zubov, lang, bondra...
eric lecompte (24th overall in 93) ahead of pandolfo, langenbrunner, mccabe, morrison, prospal, satan, marchant, tucker, brunette, demitra, timonen...
nabakov (19th overall in 95) ahead of gauthier, laraque, hecht, kapanen, savard, handzus, axelsson...
royer (31st overall in 96) ahead of cullen, white, chara, poti, parrish, lydman, rozsival, pahlsson, kubina, kaberle, c. adams, salo...
mccarthy (23rd overall in 99) ahead of havlat, hall, hagman, f. kaberle, havelid, comrie, malone, erat, zetterberg, vrbata...
yakubov & vorobiev (10th & 11th overall in 2000) ahead of hainsey, m. hossa, frolov, volchenkov, hale, boyes, ott, justin williams, kronwall, schultz, pettinger, stoll, lillja, vermette, martin, wallin, visnovsky, liles, h. lundqvist, lombardi, gaustad, miettinen...
adam munro (29th overall in 2001) ahead of d. roy, tyutin, cammalleri, pominville, budaj, plekanec, sharp, ehrhoff, emery, schubert, wellwood, bieksa, sidlicky, clowe, jokinen, laich, huet, svatos, gerber...
babchuk (21st overall in 2002) ahead of eager, steen, daley, greene, ranger, white, wideman,
it is pure hindsight, but the hawks could have built a pretty good core featuring
brodeur in goal
lidstrom, chara, volchenkov & greene on defense and
langenbrunner, savard, zetterberg, frolov & pominville at forward
all with the picks they actually had....
The jury isn't even in the building yet for Crawford. I hope they give this kid a real shot before they package him in a trade or waive him. He has the tools, if they don't screw him up. He probably is going to have a problem keeping his head on straight with seeing a seive like Huet get 5.5 for 4 years from the team he is trying to make. I would too. But I hope the kid can keep his focus through all of the BS and show all what he can do.