More DePaul direct talk
Hey all,
As I put this DePaul feature together (look in Wednesday's Herald to coincide with the home game against No. 2 Connecticut), I realize I have way more interesting quotes from AD Jean Lenti Ponsetto than I'm going to be able to use.
Since I can't buy an extra forest to get the necessary newsprint to share all of her words -- and because I don't want to truncate her thoughts as much as the limited space in the paper will demand -- I'm going to throw a few of them on here.
This is straight off the recorder and, I believe, helps to explain why she's sticking up for fourth-year coach Jerry Wainwright. You'll probably see some of this in shortened form in the feature, but I thought it important to allow Jeannie's words to stand on their own here.
As we enter the quote, we were talking about how DePaul has invested in charter travel and "guarantee games" and better locker room facilities and better basketball office facilities in an effort to be more equal with its Big East brethren...
"We’ve made all those right kinds of moves. But just because you make them, it doesn’t mean you’re going to reap the benefit of them instantaneously. It’s a process. Again, I’ll point to Doug Bruno or Bill Carmody in his circumstance, because I’m really happy for him because I like Bill, I think he’s a good guy and I think he’s done a nice job with his program. He’s tried to win the right way and recruit kids who could go to Northwestern and be successfully athletically and academically.
"That’s certainly DePaul’s theme. That’s what we’re trying to do, be successful athletically and academically. But it takes time. You don’t get to put kids on waivers and you don’t just boot ‘em off the team if their potential is not what you thought it was going to be. We’re an educational process, an educational entity. That, sometimes, is really frustrating for our fans to understand. There have been occasions when people have said to me, in their frustration, they don’t care if they go to school and they don’t care if they graduate. Well, that’s not what we’re in the business of.
"I think sometimes folks want to look at us and say DePaul has been the most high-profile college basketball program in Chicago and want us to be the Junior Bulls or the Junior NBA team that’s here in town. And that’s not who we are. That’s not very realistic. We’re in the business of educating kids.
"Obviously, we want to be competitive in athletics just like we want to be competitive in academics. But it doesn’t happen overnight and it doesn’t happen when you’re in a situation where you’ve got to manage coaching changes. You’re not going to have instantaneous success just because someone new has come to town.
"You know, I think what’s really been disappointing for me, I think that Jerry has been a really successful coach throughout his career. More importantly than me saying it are his peers and his colleagues and how well-respected he is among them. Again, it’s the reality of being in the world that we live in where everything is instant gratification and it’s "get information instantaneously” and instant gratification in everything that you do.
"But Jerry is a really quality person and a really quality coach and is working really hard to do his job. For me, it’s been disappointing that folks have been kind of cheap-shotting him, that somehow question his ability. You know, a lot of times people want to refer to Jerry as somebody who doesn’t know what the big time looks like. Jerry has been at Wake Forest. Wake Forest was a pretty good college basketball program when he was there. He’s coached pros before he got to DePaul. He’s obviously had success at Wilmington and had success at Richmond and beaten some pretty good teams when he’s been at those places.
"At the same time, looking at him and wanting him to be successful, DePaul has also made this transition into the Big East. And, as I said, it’s a process. You could point to other programs who’ve certainly had success that are like us that people want to compare us to.
"Marquette had the benefit of having the same coach in that situation who’d taken a team to the Final Four -- and I give Tom Crean a lot of credit for having done that and having made the transition into the Big East. But they were able to do that with the same coaching staff.
"I tell people all the time: I love Mike Brey. I think he’s one of the all-time great guys in the business and a really good coach in our league. But, you know, it was just a few short years ago, Jerry’s first year in the league and our first year in the Big East, Mike had been at Notre Dame for a few years, we’re duking it out with Notre Dame for the 12th spot in the Big East tournament.
"But what changed for Mike Brey? Mike Brey didn’t become any better of a coach. What changed for him is Luke Harangody. I think Mike would tell you that. Give him credit. He did a great job in recruiting a great talent in Luke Harangody. But the fact of the matter is, three years ago, he had been in the Big East a number of years, we’re down there fighting it out for who’s going to get the 12th spot. But it was Jerry’s first year and Mike’s fourth or fifth year (editor's note: actually his sixth year). Like I said, I think those are the kinds of circumstances and situations that folks have a short memory about.
"I think they also have a short memory about we beat Connecticut here. And we’ve beaten Syracuse. And we’ve beaten some of the other good programs that are in the conference. So it’s not like DePaul doesn’t know how to do that. But it is a process and it is about being able to retain a really highly talented pool of kids."
Agree? Disagree? Threaten to ditch your season tickets? Threaten to buy some season tickets?
LW
For too long, there have been stories of possible recruits to the DePaul Basketball team questioning the longevity of Coach Wainwright.
For too long, the alum and fans of the Basketball program have been questioning the ability of Coach Wainwright.
There has been a general feeling among the season ticket holders that I sit with, that DePaul could and should have done better in their Coaching selection.
Then, your article comes out and cites the AD crediting JW with doing a good job, and he will return for the next year.
Simultaneously, another paper reports that not only will JW be returning, but that he has been extended through the 2012 season. And, this was agreed back in 2007.
Something is not Kosher. I can research the DePaul records and find contract extension notifications of JL Ponseto, and Coach Bruno, and others in the Athletic Department. But, no where can I find any announcement of an extension for Coach Wainwright. Why has this been held a secret?
Frankly, the credibility of this report is questionable. I believe it was an afterthought, and a fabrication of the AD. She obviously realized, as you reported, if this Coach was to continue through next season, that makes him a lame duck when it comes to recruiting. So, she fabricated the scenario of a 2007 extension, that was held in confidence, even to possible recruits. Something is definitely wrong.
Since, you seem to have an investigative nose, I wish you would get to the bottom of this. DePaul is taking criticism on local Sports radio broadcasts, and is the laughing stock of the Big East.
As an Alum, I plead for your support to get to the bottom of this matter. Something is rotten, and the smell is getting worse. Come to a game, and hear the Boos coming from the loyal fandom. It is a disgrace.
JLP, what improvement(s) have you seen under JW's leadership? Last four seasons, we have had some very talented teams, but our coach has failed to win. If the Big East tournament was in the same format as previous three years (12 teams only), DePaul would have missed it three out of four years. If you add that up that's 75% of the time he missed the Big East tournament. How can you be supportive of a guy that can't even get you into your own conf. tournament ?
If Alabama can fire their coach for going to NCAA tournament 5 out 10 seasons, with a very dismal last two seasons. How can you not do the same here at DPU? I see a walkout in the near future.
BTW: don't be printing too many season tickets next season.
Many people here have put a lot of time and effort to respond to this blog. There are a lot of good thoughts and ideas and these need to be sent directly to the DePaul administration.
Please do so as this will be the only way to make the voices heard and we all know that a change is needed.
Please cut and paste your thoughts and send directly to JLP and Father Holtschneider. Their respective e mails are easily accesbile via the DePaul site.
All we get with this coach is excuses, bad jokes and off-base analogies. "We are too young". Pitt is younger and they are top 5. "Wilson Chandler left early" That was 2 years ago. Teams have players that leave early every season. What do good coaches/programs do, they reload. What does our program do, makes excuses and points fingers.
Last week, I was telling my boss I think DePaul is a lot like the Blackhawks -- a surprisingly large bloc of passionate, veteran fans that are just waiting for something good to happen to come out of the woodwork.
These responses are certainly indicative of that.
A few quick things that should show up in the article:
1. DePaul is about to re-up with Allstate, so an on-campus arena is not a current focus.
2. Recruiting gurus have varying opinions on DePaul's future with upcoming recruits.
3. DePaul ain't leaving the Big East.
And for the person who wanted me to interject in Jeannie's quotes, I felt it was my job here to present her thoughts unvarnished. The article will have reporting and context, of course.
LW
Reading these quotes is making me ill. Jerry Wainwright does not know big time college basketball. He was head coach and UNC-Wilmington and was barely over .500 at an A-10 school in Richmond. Those are small schools, and we have to stop thinking small.
Good GPA's are fine, but you need to win too. Xavier graduates all their players nearly every year, and they have become a national power.
DePaul is not going to get anywhere in the 2011 recruiting class with a lame duck coach next year. No recruit will show any interest in a school who has been horrible in recent years, and has a coach who has proven that he can not develop talent over a 4 year period. Plus, his assistants are basically non-existent in the Chicago recruiting scene.
DePaul is at a distinct disadvantage in every game because of Jerry. He cannot out-coach anyone, period. Why do you think the team looks so un-prepared to start games? How about after timeouts, where the great coaches really separate themselves? His plays after timeouts are pathetic.
I have zero faith that JLP will make the right decision and fire this guy, and these quotes are not helping that. It is time to face the facts that this program is a DISGRACE, and change needs to occur now.
LW,
I "was" one of those recruiting gurus (even though I hate that word), where I worked for Rivals.com for three years, and in that time helped scout area prospects, do national stories, etc. I left because I just couldn't be that "homer" DePaul guy trying to get everyone excited for this team, because I saw this coming, as well as I did not have much of anything to write on their recruiting, because it's just ugly in this area. As you know, the Class of 2011 is one of the very best, if not the best, in this state's history. DePaul just isn't that strong with any of these kids, and if a change doesn't happen now, it's going to take more than a few years to recover.
Jerry admitted himself last night on the radio that each and every year you need a top-notch recruit, and other than Koshwal and Tucker, who is that guy? Jerry says experience is what you need, and Marquette's team shows that. Not sure if he knows this, but they were really good when they were freshmen too. And how about teams like Butler? How are they this good?
Lindsey, to be honest, I think these blogs are fuel to the fire, and this is only going to get DePaul fans more vocal for a change. So I do thank you for that.
In reading all the post's here, it seems like everyone agrees that Jerry must go. But then WHO is next. LW who is that coach that's available or can be lured away, that is going to have kids want to come to DPU and turn the program around. I just don't see top recruits from Chicago or Illinois wanting to stay in their home city or state. There are other colleges in both football or basketball, who bring in a former NFL or NBA coach and kids say, he can get me to the next level. The guy parents respect because they have seen him play or coach on TV in the pro's. Is there a top college coach that would come to DPU and create a buzz. Coach K isn't coming home, Bob Knight is not coming here. PLEASE DONT EVEN SUGGEST Digger Phelps, it's bad enough that ESPN puts him on the air as a so called expert. I don't know if Hersey product Brian Gregory wants to bail on Dayton and come here. Is there a NBA player or coach ready to try college coaching. I would love to hear the suggestions from the posters who want Jerry out as to who they think should be JLP's next hire.
If Jerry is back next season, it's crystal clear that Jeannie does not care about what the fans think. If an entire fan population does not care for a coach, and it has merit, you can him. Easy as that. You have to think about the "future" of the program, as many young fans and students can be, and will be, the boosters of tomorrow. Will they if you totally disconnect them with the program today? No!
If Jeannie is listening to Jerry's peers, then that is just hilarious. I talk to several assistants from other schools, and they share the same views as DePaul fans that something needs to be done. They do say: "If I was a coach in the Big East, I'd be praising Jerry too, because that's a win for my team". Of course other coaches in the Big East want Jerry here...because he isn't competition; he isn't a threat.
Jeannie has to look at this financially...look at it as return on investment. Spend $1M or more on a coach, and it will pay off, and then some. Every increment of 3,333 of fans is $1 million in the bank, assuming $20 a ticket with 15 home games in the season. Spend the money up front on a proven winner, and your return on investment will well exceed the initial.
I still don't see how she would extend Jerry though. I would assume that since he's the highest paid employee of DePaul, he would need every approval at DePaul to make it happen, and she would have to explain her case on why it's the right route to go. No clue how you can do that with three horrible years, and one OK one.
And if it happens, again, I'm gone.
I am a current junior at DePaul and I have never experienced the NCAA runs or the consistent success of the late seventies and eighties, so perhaps I am not as bitter towards the program as others. Yet, maybe that is the problem. The 'great' memories I have of DePaul sports during my time here are a win over Kansas, an NIT win over Hofstra at McGrath, and women's softball run in the NCAA tourney. Still, I believe the athletic experience and "school spirit" of a university is an integral part of any college, a part which DePaul is seriously lacking.
I wish to point out that success of athletics not only bolsters the student body, but aids the university's promotion of itself as well at its assemblance of future classes. The attractiveness of a school can only go up with a prestigious athletic venue. What a shame it is to look around at my fellow students during games and see not more than fifty in the crowd! Fifty students at a school that prides itself on being the largest Catholic institution in the nation. There is no hype, no hoopla, no desire to even talk DePaul sports with people at my own school.
As a student of DePaul University, I agree that an athlete's education is a necessary component of their time spent at this university; however, if this were the only case, then why make a distinction between athletic grants and those of an academic nature. Would "our mission" then require our athletic scholarships go to the most academically qualified students? I do not think so.
A team that simply creates decent students does nothing for the university. A baksetball team in a league with the caliber of the Big East can be a tremendous asset for any school, both financially and socially within the college. Jerry may be a good man, but he has not proven himself a good coach. If you truly stop to think about the school as a whole, good athletic teams make sense. With the Jerry at the helm, the "Crown Jewel" of DePaul sports has not and will not make progressive strides of any sort.
Lindsey, the next time you talk with Ms. JLP, ask her what our graduation rate of players is. If the academic stature is a measuring stick, we failed there again.
If I count right, 4 Leitao players graduated, 1 took 5 years, and none since.
The program has fallen off the map, DPU is a non-factor in the city, in the BE, in NCAA Division 1 college hoops. JLP I wouldn't look to be NU, that program is down more than it is up. I know they want to make NU the Duke of the North, but it's not going to happen. OF course if you can steal Coach K away, then we will chat. ND is a so-so program, Mike Bray learned years back what the football folks there have been trying to do more of lately, water down the schedule. I remember a DPU-ND game a few years back in Rosemont when ND came in 11-3. The ND fans behind my seat where stunned they weren't ranked, of course the 11 wins came against schools most folks have never heard of. The 3 losses came against schools everyone would know.
Harangody is good enough to carry ND past the guess who's, but not past good ranked teams night in and out as we have seen the last few days. Jerry is starting show more of that lost look on his face during games. The look made famous in town by Lovie Smith, that is now being copied by Vinny Del Negro. DPU needs to do something to make a statement, that shows it's for real to fans and recruits. Status quo won't get it done.
In year 4??? Apparently at DePaul it is ok to regress every year to the point where your team lacks any basic fundamentals. AS someone said, while it is great the GPA of the team is high, they were given a scholarship based on their athletic ability, not their ability to solve a calculus problem. This team is getting worse every day/year, and the excuse that Wilson Chandler left is getting old real fast. Guy are leaving other programs and those teams seems to reload. JW has not shown the ailbity to recruit even close to BE level, but his day in and day out excuse is "we are young" . You start 2 SR's, a JR and 2 Soph's (whoa re your two best players who have played as many minutes as anyone the past 2 years). And JLP is living off beating UCONN and Syracuse 1 time. Look what has happened after that 1 win. Those teams have gotten better and the Blue Demons have become irrelevant BE bottom feeders.
So you want to be like NW. One, as much as you want it to be, DePaul is not NW in terms of academics. Two, going into this season, Coach Carmody had a 102-135 record, with 1 season (of 8) at or over .500 (overall and in the B10) So that is the program we are aspiring to be? 33 games under .500. Please do set the bar to high.
The most telling sign of how bad the program has become resides right here in the city of Chicago. The 2011 class is loaded with big time studs. NOT ONE has even put Depaul on their long list of schools. That itself is an embarrassment to the program. You cant event get a blur chip athlete in your own back yard to give you a look. That just shows that DePaul basketball has fallen off the national (and local) landscape.
But hey, if she is happy with 2,000 people at Allstate and under .500 records with a terribly coached and fundamentally terrible basketball team, that is getting worse as the years go on, she is on the right track!
My two season tickets will not be renewed if Jerry Wainwright is back on the sideline. Call it a threat if you want, but I teetered on not renewing for this year and will definitely not for next year if he is our coach. My donations to the athletic department have also ceased.
Much of what has already been posted is exactly how I feel. The win against UConn should not be a feather in Jerry Wainwright’s cap as that team didn’t even go to the NIT that year. Also you can not live off of a hot shooting night against Syracuse and a hard fought win against Kansas forever. That Kansas win was two and a half seasons ago! As someone already has said, where is the progress?
Yes, Notre Dame was down recently but before that time period Mike Brey had them consistently in the NCAA tournament and they have been back regularly since. Luke Harangody is a really good player, but he isn’t solely making the Fighting Irish a good respectable program.
What I find interesting is that these misconceptions that are being put forth aren’t questioned at all. Perhaps in the paper edition they will be, but I doubt it. Why isn’t “Joe College” following up these quotes/statements with hard pressing rhetoric such as ‘Notre Dame isn’t good solely because of one player’; ‘The win against UConn isn’t a marquee victory’; ‘Shouldn’t the success of DePaul basketball be more than a couple of wins against ranked teams in a four year span?’.
Lindsey,
The next time you talk w/ Mrs. Ponsetto, please ask her to define "Really Successful Coach." The last time I check Mr. Wainright's win/loss record is hovering right around .500. If Jeanie is going to ignore that fact, then what else is she going to ignore? Also, ask her why she seems content on just competing. What's a matter with winning? Not once in your blog did she mention the word WINNING. Perhaps this type of attitude is why Depaul finds itself well under .500 and winless in the Big East.
This spring will be very telling for the folks at Depaul. If they continue with the status quo, they'll be saying that they're content with mediocrity. If that's the case, then I think they should be called the DEPAUL-SO-RANS....
As a DePaul alumni, graduate of the business school, and a professional strategy and business development consultant, the problem with the men's basketball program has always been the same - lack of a long term vision for the type of program they want to become.
DePaul and JLP's comments about bulding a program that graduates kids is noble, yes this is a university, but from the business perspective the university already has a terribly low graduation rate. I believe it may have been 56% when I was a student 10 years ago so lets not start to solve the larger problem of poor graduation rates with the men's basketball program. Let the university as a whole take care of that issue.
Now, men's basketball is the cornerstone of the DePaul atheletic program. The history, the people, the players, the experiences, they have all left the building. DePaul's success occurred at a time when there was no internet, there was no cable TV, the was a local campus arena, and a largely immobile population that rarely traveled away from Chicago. All of this helped DePaul maintain the big fish in a little pond attitude and if things were good, they would get national attention, if things weren't they could go under the radar until things evolved again.
This is a new generation, a new time, a new age, and the business of college atheletics is different too. Today, everyone knows when you are good and when you are bad. Everyone knows who is on television and who is not. Everyone knows what an exciting campus feeling looks like as well as a boring one. DePaul cannot hide itself like they were able to in a different age. DePaul must compete aggressively, spend money investing in campus facilities (mainly arena within 2 miles of campus), and focus on the business (the basketball program). dePaul does not focus on their alumni, nor are the focusing on their students when it comes to men's basketball. DePaul alumni are aging and they are living on historic dreams of once upon a time stories and memories of sold out Alumni Hall and DePaul's highest points in 78-84. Those times no longer exist, alumni with those experiences are growing thinner and thinner, and younger alumni, and even worse, high school, students do not have the same memories to want to be a participating alumni. If DePaul does not find a way by listening to the students (who become alumni) as well as listen to the young profession, still living near campus, and willing to donate alumni who want a city arena, DePaul will not build the interest in the program they seek. Older alumni will become fewer and fewer and younger alumni whill grow further disenfranchised.
I'm used to writing 50-100 page reports for clients looking for strategic changes to their business and at the risk of transforming this posting into one of those and boring and upsetting some, I will stop. But I will say yes the argument is complex, yes some changes are costly (all internal investments are), yes it wont be done over night, but the simple plan may look like this: 1) hire high profile coach that will draw fans regardless of record, 2) ditch Allstate as it is a total disconnect and has been for years from 21st century students (there is way more on this issue that fuels this being a massive problem), 3) move back to campus for a few years and sell out 3500 seats a game to rebuild campus spirit, atmosphere, and energy, 4) destroy all merchandise as it attracts nobody and is sub-par (traditional college sweatshirts and t-shirts are all you need) 5) target funds to secure space for 12000 seat facility within 2 mile radius of downtown so students can take a taxi, walk, or take pulic transit easilty to games and the professionally working alumni can actually make games during the week after work 6) tap into the newly build school spirit, new alumni support, new professional alumni able to go to games after work, and secure a more robust basketball booster club. I know this is a simple sketch, but taking this plan, fleshing it out, and spending some money to make thing swork is the right thing to do.
DePaul leadership needs to be serious and compete properly, listen to the alumni and not themselves, and then perhaps things will change. This business case is very solvable, yet the thinkers taking on this issue are clearly missing the boat. The problem is with the vision of what they want the program to be and how it needs to compete in the 21st century. DePaul cannot hide like they were once able to do 20plus years ago and show their head when they were good. This economy means you must show your best face all the time, every day, to everyone, and it must be at least competing with average arena facilities that meet the fan's needs.
Waking up as a DePaul fan is bad enough, but waking up to read this makes it that much worse! How DePaul's administration could be happy with this joker is beyond me. We are 0-7 in conference, but even if we were in the Horizon League, which is low major, we would still be in the middle of the pack. Why? Because the coaching is horrible.
Jeannie stated that she is happy with what Bill Carmody has done to Northwestern. What has he done? He is 10-7, and 2-5 in his conference. Is that what you want DePaul to be? She talks about how Brey is finally successful now, and because of Harongody. Last time I checked they had a great point guard, very good shooter, getting quality recruits/transfers next year, and he is a great X's and O's coach. He had a down year a few years ago, but he was successful prior to that, both at Notre Dame and Deleware.
DePaul was on the right track with Dave Leitao. We were the #1 seed in Conference USA a few years ago. Yes, better than Marquette, and better than Louisville. He did that in Year #2, so a coaching change can, and will, make a difference. What has Jerry Wainwright done to make us proud? Beat Syracuse...but didn't we win only 12 games that year? Beat Kansas...but didn't we miss the tournament that year? And these past two years, well, I can't think of any bright spots.
If this guy is back next year, I am not. Five tickets that have been bought for 30+ years, now gone. The two next to me already said they would pull them too. And the two next to that, same thing. And yes, the two next to that. EVERYONE in our section has been so mad about what has happened, and games are not fun anymore.
I love Jeannie, but she is digging her own grave right now. Just because he's a nice guy doesn't mean he can coach.
First, we didn't give these players a scholarship for their brains. Their scholarship was an athletic one, and specifically basketball. That should be viewed as a course in itself, and we have had a failing grade.
As a fan, we don't expect instantaneous gratification, although it would be nice. But, we do expect to see continuous improvement and player development. We are failing here also, as the quantifiable stats bear out, in points allowed, FT %, 3-pt %, Turnovers, and more. Player development cannot be seen.
Next, we may have beaten the likes of UConn and Cuse, and even Kansas. But, 2 of those were in down times and rebuilding. What did we do the next time we played? They improved while we regressed. And, I don't buy the 'Wilson left' excuse, or any others for that matter.
We will play teams with as many freshmen as we have. We will play teams where the players can play within a system that benefits them.
Jerry said it in the radio just last night. In the BE, you have to replace the player who left with a like quality player to maintain a BE stature. We haven't done that.
Yeah, there are players who come in and are studs. Harangody and Blair to name a couple. There have also been a few who have really developed and stepped up their game, Thabeet, McNeal, T. Williams to name a few. And, I don't see that here.
We haven't recruited high ranked players. We haven't developed the quality needed. And, others from BE Schools, criticize our style of play. Our crowds are down. There is NO student support. And, I don't see any prospect of that turning around in our current environment.