Maddow and Blago --

Here is an interesting look at what Gov. Rod Blagojevich considers to be illegal and what he thinks is just politics. As you watch him walking the tight rope keep in mind again that this all can come back up in his criminal trial.
The first segment is his first attempt to explain his alleged desire to fire the Chicago Tribune editorial board in exchange for help selling Wrigley Field. It almost seems as if he confirms that basic premise:

MADDOW: Are they two totally separate things? Did you not want anybody kiboshed from the editorial board? Or are they just not connected?

BLAGOJEVICH: I can’t go into the details. But I will say… look, there was talk of impeachment long before this happened to me. It’s been happening throughout the last session in the House because I was finding legal ways to expand healthcare, help uninsured women get breast and cervical cancer programs and do things to get senior citizens free rides, and they were angry.

They thought that I was too aggressive with the executive use of my office. And so there was talk of impeachment long before that. When the election came and went that was a real possibility in the new session. Because there was a new leader in the senate who was close and allied with the House Speaker.

And so we had to consider the possibility that that could happen. And that they would say that this governor goes around the legislature and does too many things to get things done. That Cubs deal was an example, a legal process, but an example of the legislature not willing to do something to keep Wrigley Field in Illinois. So we found a creative way, through the Illinois Finance Authority, to keep the Cubs in a place where it was in their interest and the interest of the people, I thought, where they could stay.

That was something, the sort of thing that they would say is an impeachable thing ‘cause I’m using the executive office, they think, without the legislative approval. The Tribune editorial board was advocating that I be impeached for those sorts of things.

And so again, without going into detail, they’re getting the benefit of these things to try to help the Cubs. We just would prefer that they don’t, look, that—that the things that they’re advocating that I be impeached it’d be nice if they they laid off on an issue like that.

***

MADDOW: Do you agree that it would be wrong, it would be criminal for you to try to exchange Barack Obama’s U.S. senate seat, that appointment, for something that would be of value to you. You agree that that would be wrong.

BLAGOJEVICH: Oh, absolutely.

MADDOW: Yeah. Did…

BLAGOJEVICH: A personal, you know, one for the other personal gain?

MADDOW: Yeah.

BLAGOJEVICH: Absolutely.

MADDOW: And you didn’t do that?

BLAGOJEVICH: Absolutely not.

MADDOW: Well, on the wiretaps, you’re quoted saying, “It’s a bleeping valuable thing. You don’t just give it away for nothing. If they’re not going to offer anything of value I might just take it. I’ve got this thing and it’s bleeping golden. I’m not just giving it up for bleeping nothing.” In what possible context could you say—say things like that if you weren’t trying to exchange something of value for the senate seat? What other context would make …

BLAGOJEVICH: Well, let me answer that two ways. First, I can’t comment specifically on that, ‘cause I haven’t heard those tapes. But assuming that’s what it is, if you hear all the tapes, and you hear the whole thing in its context, if I feared that that was something sinister or onerous would I want all those tapes heard?

And, in addition to that, just playing devil’s advocate, I’m not acknowledging that’s what actually were on the tapes, ‘cause we haven’t had a chance to hear it. But playing the devil’s advocate in assuming it was. Why can’t the construction of that be I want them to help me pass a public works program, a jobs program, that the Democratic speaker, Mr. Madigan, has been blocking.

I want them to help me help 45,000 working people get healthcare that the Democratic speaker in the house has been blocking. I want them to help me have a law that requires insurance companies to cover people with preexisting medical conditions that the Democratic speaker has been blocking.

MADDOW: Even if you wanted food for the hungry, I mean, even if you wanted justice itself in exchange for the senate seat, you’re not supposed to exchange anything for the Senate seat.

BLAGOJEVICH: Well, I don’t disagree that one for the other isn’t. But there are political negotiations and leveraging which is all very much part of the process. And, again, if those tapes were all heard you’d hear discussions that I had with people from five senior senators – Senator Dick Durban about facilitating Senator Menendez.

Harry Reid and I discussed the Senate seat. Heck of a lot of other people. And I would like every one of them to be able to testify under oath, sworn testimony, in that impeachment trial about the context and nature of those conversations.

MADDOW: Are you saying, though, that they would testify as to what you were trying to get in exchange for the appointment?

BLAGOJEVICH: I’m simply saying, if they told the truth, they’d be part of a big story and a larger story, that would, I think, show that there were a lot of ideas talked about. That we explored different options. We looked and tried to think outside the box, like Oprah Winfrey, for example.

Some ideas were good. Some were stupid. Some you can’t do. Just natural discussions when you’re trying to get a results that ultimately leads to the place that’s right for people. And when this whole story’s told it’s gonna show the decisions and all the rest, ultimately, we’re about putting people to work, expanding healthcare, and holding the line on taxes for middle class families.

MADDOW: When you again, this is from the wiretapped calls, and I realize you’re not gonna testify to their veracity. But they are out there, and the transcripts are there, and some of them were played today in the senate. Speaking about Barack Obama’s advisors, “They’re not willing to give me anything but appreciation in exchange for the senate seat. Bleep them.” What would you want other than appreciation? What could be kosher to exchange for a senate seat?

BLAGOJEVICH: Well, how about helping us pass healthcare and a jobs bill? And helping the people of Illinois. Don’t just leave Illinois now.

MADDOW: I will appoint person X instead of person Y unless you do this favor for me?

BLAGOJEVICH: No, no, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m simply saying, I’m in a political business. When Barack Obama agrees to raise $10 million for Hillary Clinton to get out of the race that’s the natural political sort of thing that happens in this business.

It’s appropriate. Nothing that you—improper about it. Again, in the full context, discussions and the explorations of ideas and thoughts and whether you could or couldn’t do something you should be able to do that in a free country that guarantees the right of free speech.

Especially when you’re doing it in what you think is the sanctity of your home, and you want to do it out of your home phone, because you don’t want any interconnection with the government’s lines, so somebody thinks you’re talking politics on a government phone. Again, when the whole story is heard, and put in the proper context, I think you’ll see a process that ultimately would lead in the right place.