So Olson wasn't in Peavy deal

So Olson wasn't in Peavy deal

Posted by Bruce on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 13:29

The Cubs today got rid of one guy they hardly knew and another they knew all too well for somebody GM Jim Hendry has wanted for a long, long time.

Hendry and his front office sent lefty Garrett Olson (just acquired from Baltimore) and shortstop Ronny Cedeno to the Seattle Mariners for righty Aaron Heilman. A lot of people had assumed the Cubs obtained Olson to included in a package for the Padres' Jake Peavy, but that's not happening, and a Peavy trade is still a ways away if it's ever going to happen.

Hendry has coveted Heilman, a Notre Dame product, for several years. It took the Mets to trade him to the Mariners this winter for Hendry to get him. Hendry hasn't been able to get a whole lot done with Mets GM Omar Minaya, dating to Minaya's days with the Montreal Expos (see Michael Barrett to Cubs from Montreal through Oakland).

It looks like Heilman, who worked out of the pen last year, will get a chance to compete for the fifth starter's spot in spring training, which opens in just over two weeks. Heilman has wanted to start, and the Cubs are going to give him a shot. Hendry has spent the winter stockpiling arms in the wake of Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden having shoulder problems. We'll see if all that quantity yields some quality.

Oh, and manager Lou Piniella will be glad to bid farewell to Cedeno, a shortstop with all kinds of talent who got in his own way the last few years with his play on the field and his attitude off of it. He might be the only player we'll ever see who got thrown out going from first to second on a walk. Maybe the change of scenery will do him good.

There seems to be a

revisionist history going on here. I remember during the 2006 season when everyone, myself included, was calling for Hendry's head. Was he as bad a GM as we thought during that time? Of course not, and he is not as good now because the purse strings have been opened. There are many people from owners to cross-checkers and player development coaches to GM's that play a role in a teams success, and most of us know very little how that dynamic works in assembling a team so let's cut Hendry a little slack here.

Back in 2006, the Cubs had the opportunity to get B Abreu for M Prior but Hendry wouldn't part with Prior and the deal fell through, not good. When the 2003 team came out of nowhere, Hendry dealt for Lofton and Ramirez and Hendry looked like a genius. So I just can't to get my underwear in a twist for what we received for Pie. What do you think Hendry could have got for him anyway, Nolan Ryan?

Normally a player would yield a better return in the off season but the situation in San Diego is well documented and especially in this economy, no GM in his right mind is going to overpay to get him. The Cubs are Peavy's desired location now that Atlanta is out of the picture and to be frank, Peavy is the one in control not the Padres. When more teams become pressed to add that final piece for the playoff run, Peavy could expand the list of teams he'd go to and create a bidding war that would yield the Padres more than they will receive now. If not, all the better for the Cubs if they still need Peavy, but for the Cubs to pay up when they seem to be the only suitor is just crazy.

By the Cubs not acquiring any more payroll now, they'll have the opportunity to release players that don't fit, even if they have to eat some salary to do it. The Cubs don't have to win 97 games to make it into the playoffs and their needs will be more clearly defined at the trading deadline. Just sit back and relax boy and girls, the Cubs biggest deficiency last year in the playoffs was offense, not pitching and the 2009 version is going to score a s...load of runs.

Posted by Clute on Fri, 01/30/2009 - 02:12
Their biggest deficiency in

Their biggest deficiency in the playoffs was not lack of an offense, it was a lack of testicular forititude. They had the most runs in the NL last season, and by a wide margin. I think people want to find other reasons for why they didn't hit in the playoffs. A popular theory is that they were too right handed, but that wasn't a problem in the regular season when they hit very well against righty. Plus the biggest guy they brought in to solve this problem, Bradley, is significantly better against LHP than RHP. He mashes lefties but does not to so well against righties. Really when it comes down to it, they choked. It's 2 years in a row this core group of guys couldn't handle the moment, and that's what will have to change. Hopefully the makeover by bringing in guys like Bradley will help this.

As for regular season offense, I don't think you can expect the Cubs to score as many runs in 2009 as they did in 2008, let alone more. They got a lot of production that isn''t likely to be duplicated. They got 298 PAs of a .937 OPS from Edmonds. They got 284 PAs of a .909 OPS from Fontenot. hey got an .857 OPS from DeRosa.

Really in order to match what they were last year (assuming the every day regulars who are still in the lineup from last year perform similarly as they did in 2008), this is what will have to happen. Let's assume for this argument that Fukudome platooned in center last year (although he got about a hundred more at-bats- 501- than you can expect him to get this upcoming season). Let's also assume that DeRosa played all his games at second and Edmonds and Fontenot splits right field (obviously not true, but hear me out). Since we're strictly talking about offense, I'm doing this to equalize as many positions from 2008 to the projected 2009 layout.

Now, we basically have 2 changes offensively. First we'll have the 2009 platoon of Fontenot and Miles at 2B to replace the 2008 DeRosa. Second, we'll have the 2009 Milton Bradley to replace the 2008 combo of Fontenot/Edmonds (combined, they played close to a full season in 2008).

So that means we'd need about a full season of a .900+ OPS from Bradley in RF and an .857 OPS from the Fontenot/Miles platoon just to break even from what we got this year. That seems pretty unlikely, especially considering Bradley can't even stay on the field when he's a DH. Again though, this breakdown is assuming that all of the other starters that haven't changed perform at the same level they did in 2008. Obviously that's not a given, but you'd project the rest of the guys t put up similar numbers as they did in 2008. You can argue that guys like Lee might bounce back, Soto might continue to improve, Soriano may sty healthy, etc. But you could also say Theriot's BABIP mojo won't continue, Zambrano won't OPS .900 again,etc.

Really I see the offense being very solid, but I think it might be unreasonable to expect 2008 run totals again. Let's face it, outside of a coupe injuries and maybe Fukudome, we had a dream season offensively in 2009. DeRosa had a career year, Theriot had a career year, we got ridiculous production from Edmonds, Soto broke out, and the bench raked (including absurd production from Fontenot).

Posted by Skiba17 on Fri, 01/30/2009 - 06:31
I'd like to take issue

on just one point you bring up about the 2008 offense. I never really intended to say that the '09 offense would score more runs than the '08 one did and that was not my point. My point was that this team will score plenty of runs to win enough games to make the playoffs. Assuming the pitching is a constant and with a full year with Harden and a replacement 5th starter, I don't think that's too much of a stretch. But back to the offense, it's really about the way you score runs and who you score them off.

Anyone could see that Edmonds had a fine regular season for a platoon guy, but he was nowhere near his prime numbers and it was apparent that against playoff caliber rotations, his bat was over matched.

Theriot and DeRosa both had spectacular years compared to their career numbers but a slap hitter that doesn't strikeout much is certainly a better bet to maintain that level than DeRosa. Fontenot won't be able to match DeRosa's HR production but will post excellent numbers none the less and the value of him being a LHB cannot be overlooked. If the Cubs use him in the 2 hole and Bradley as cleanup, they have a nice top of the order with R-L-R-L-R that will greatly improve the chances of forcing an oppositions manager to prematurely pull an otherwise effective pitcher. This facet of the game cannot be overlooked when for example you look at how effective that balanced lineup worked for the Rays and Phillies last year. Pitchers have to make adjustments when they face left or right handed hitters and having to adjust back and forth every other hitter just improves the chances of a mistake by them.

You also assume that Bradley won't be healthy but every rating service projects him as being more productive than an league average RF'er even if he plays just 80 games and I'd expect him to play at least that many.

You also assume Fukudome will not rebound this year and I probably agree with you, but any improvement will be a plus and if he can perform anywhere near his career numbers it will be a big bonus.

Having Soriano for a full year will also improve the teams overall run production and if the Cubs can find a legit lead off man, either in house or through a trade his move down in the lineup would also help the teams production. It cannot be overemphasized the value of having a top of the order that works the count and has the ability to spoil pitches and build up the starters pitch count. Anytime you can get an oppositions starter out of the game sooner than they want, it's usually a plus for the offense.

Posted by Clute on Fri, 01/30/2009 - 13:31
You're right that Edmonds

You're right that Edmonds only did it against a split, but I don't know about the "nowhere near hs prime" stuff re: Edmonds. He had a .937 OPS last season with the Cubs. His career OPS is .905.

Anyways, it doesn't matter what his prime was. The point is that his production was extremely good last season, especially for a center fielder. That's production that is going to be lost, and that's what matters.

As for Theriot, the strikeouts aren't the issue. The issue is that he relies on finding holes and luck to get base hits. He hits for no power whatsoever, and that includes doubles and triples. A guy who strikes out but hits line drives (DeRosa) is more likely to sustain his numbers than a contract hitte who makes weak contact. If you aren't familiar with BABIP and LD%, you should check them out. Theriot had a freakish BABIP last season, especially with this LD%. That's unlikely to be sustained again. I'm not saying he'll be bad, but I don't see him matching 2008. I see him hitting like .290 with a .360 OBP. Nothing wrong with that really.

Also I really don't understand the emphasis you put on top of the order hitters working the count to get the pitcher out of the game. Why can't that be done at any spot in the lineup? It makes no difference whether that work is coming out of the op of the order or the middle or bottom. Really all that matters from top of the order hitters is getting on base. Really though, lineup construction is not a big deal at all. Over the course of a full seasonn the difference it runs it amounts to is very marginal. There are tools online where you can enter various lineup orders and see about howmuch runs they'd amount to. The different combinations are always very close. The "leadoff hitter" stuff is wayyyyy overblown and is really not a big deal at all. It's one of those old things that people still buy in to. We scored the most runs in the league last year with Soriano leading off.

Posted by Skiba17 on Sat, 01/31/2009 - 01:11
Agree

The Cubs offense will be keyed on their ability to work counts. They did a very nice job of this last year, and hopefully they can this year.

To me, the Cubs will need a rebound year from D-Lee. The power numbers better come back or this guy has to be moved out of the 3 spot. He isn't the team's best hitter, and his nagging consistency of hitting into DPs last year, killed many rallies. I like your thoughts about the lineup. The Cardinals bat Pujols 3rd because they want more at bats for him, and they want him to bat in the 1st inning. I think this should be A-ram's spot until Lee proves otherwise. Bat Lee 5th or 6th depending on Soto.

Bradley will probably play 4-5 days a week depending on the schedule, and if it keeps him healthy so be it. Fukudome can only improve and hopefully has made adjustments to his swing and gotten a good idea of how he was dominated the 2nd half of last year.

The real variable is if Piniella moves Soriano out of the leadoff spot....

Posted by Steve Rain on Fri, 01/30/2009 - 13:46
Paul Bako

Mercy. Well, I know Hendry is hell bent on left handed hitters but this is really pushing it. Pray, and I mean pray, that the Cubs keep Soto healthy because if Bako has to take over I may become an alcoholic. The man is god awful. A .217 avg=an automatic out which could cost this team some games when he rolls out there with some other bench guys. At least Blanco gave you some pop.

Cedeno, I understand why he had to go, but he has a ton of talent. Heilman is yet another love child of Jim hendry, along with Floyd, and Barrett. I would prefer to see him out of the bullpen as he has the power arm that Piniella loves, instead of starting.

I'm taking the approach that the Peavy thing isn't going to happen. I briefly read the Giles posts. I hope the Cubs don't go after this guy. He is the poster child of the steroid/HGH era we just went through. His power numbers have plummeted and before you fire back with Petco, he still plays 81 games elsewhere and less then 10 homers for a guy who at one point was banging out 30+ yearly is pretty clear cut. Throw in nagging injuries thanks to muscle breakdown, and you have a poster child.

Posted by Steve Rain on Fri, 01/30/2009 - 00:26
Bako & Giles

I wish the Cubs would leave Bako alone, too. I'd much rather they stay with Hill as the backup. Cubs pitchers love throwing to him, and the Cubs have a good record with him behind the plate. He is a switch batter (not much of a hitter), but neither is Bako.

As for Giles, you should have read MORE of the "Giles posts". No one is saying the Cubs are presently interested in Giles. He only entered into the give and take because he and Peavy are the only two assets that if traded could the Padres owner the $40M budget he seeks. My point was that both players have used their no-trade clauses to control where they play...Giles in SD or California and Peavy wants to go to the Cubs.

Posted by BroLight on Fri, 01/30/2009 - 01:45
Peavy doesn't seem to be coming

First - congrats on breaking the story Bruce.

Second - all indications are that Peavy isn't coming any time soon. The latest is Heilman's comment that he was told to come to spring training prepared to be a starter. If the Cubs thought Peavy was coming, there would be no room for Heilman as a starter, as Harden would become the best 5th starter in NL history.

Posted by Dabears111 on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 11:00
Don't count on it

The fact that Heilman was told to "be prepared" to be a starter proves nothing.

First of all, that's what Heilman wants to be....

2nd, even if there turns out to be no Peavy trade, the Cubs have no lefty to replace Marshall in the pen, and there is no guarantee that Harden will be ready or that Z is OK.

3rd, they were all (as in Marshall, Gaudin, Heilman, Guzman, Hart, etc, etc) told to be prepared to start this Spring.

4th, if the Peavy deal was still on and just delayed until the Cubs ownership change is further along, Towers would want any pitcher he was to get to be stretched out and "prepared to start"!!

Posted by BroLight on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 12:30
After the winter meetings

Peavy wasn't going anywhere before the trading deadline.

Hendry is not nor should he wait to add a starter until then. With Pettite signing for $5+M Hendry could get a hell of a pitcher by swooping in and signing Ben Sheets.

Sheets has as good as numbers as Zambrano and could most likely be had for under $10M per and probably for no more than 2 years. Acquiring a FA starter also doesn't deplete the farm system which in a few years may be needed to replace other players.

The Cubs are clearing the players out of options, Pie & Cedeneo, from of the system and when considering Hendry has always coveted Heilman, it's a logical move while at the same time adding flexibility in the rotation and bullpen.

I just hope Hendry does his homework on Sheets medical records if he intends to sign him.

Posted by Clute on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 10:15
Nice try but "no cigar"!

There has been NO CHANGE in Peavy's status as in waiting for the deadline because the owner wants the budget reduced to $40M, they are still about $5M OVER budget, AND they still don't have all the pieces they need to open the season.

Second, waiting to the deadline, risks injury to Peavy which will kill any chance of moving him.

Third, because Towers will get even less for Peavy then than between now and the season opener, because a full season of Peavy is worth more than a 1/2 season of Peavy.

Fourth, Because of the Market Conditions, many major league quality starting arms will be serving in the bullpens of teams, just waiting for the chance to start, and others will be playing at AAA waiting for a callup, which will further depress the value of Peavy

Fifth, Because Towers needs the players from the Cubs to fill holes in his roster to begin the season.

Sixth, Because to delay it until mid-season, would cause Towers to have to fill his roster with excess baggage that would waste money and have to be given away when the trade goes down.

Seventh, because Peavy or Giles has to be moved to meet the budget, and BOTH control where they play. Giles has already refused trades because he intends to stay in San Diego, and Peavy has already chosen the Cubs, and only the Cubs!

Eighth, because the new Padres owner has already stated that he will NOT be interfering with what the present owner wants (reduced budget) AND it will be years before the new owner is in control, not months.

Ninth, because the Cubs have to move a minimum of three pitchers before opening day, and they are not just going to give them away for little or nothing by releasing or designating them. They have 15 pitchers on the Roster that can't be sent down and only 12 slots, and that includes sending Samardzija down and using up Hart's final option to send him down as well.

Tenth, because Hendry is not going to hang Towers "out to dry" by backing away from a deal in which an Ace quality starter wants to pitch for the Cubs.

Eleventh, because Sheets would be a VERY poor substitute for Peavy and is FAR TOO BIG of a health risk, and the Cubs already have too much uncertainty in that department.

Twelfth....because Hendry has already picked up pieces for Towers that now clutter his own roster and who will have to be traded, released or designated for little or nothing in return.

Thirteenth....you get the point...need I go on????

This deal is going to happen, it's just a matter of when and that when will be before rosters are cut down for opening day! Anything you read or hear to the contrary is either posturing, a diversionary smoke screen, or said or written by someone that doesn't know what they are talking about!

Posted by BroLight on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 13:02
Giles

To set the record straight on Giles turning down the trade to Boston, it wasn't because he won't play for a team outside of San Diego. He nixed the trade because he was right on the verge of earning 10 and 5 rights, which would allow him to control his destiny as far as where he is traded, and because he wasn't going to be guaranteed a starting role with the Red Sox. He's already stated that he isn't opposed to being traded given the right scenario.

Posted by WSorBust on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 14:32
Giles "record"

I wasn't just talking about his having turned down the Boston deal. He has turned down others as well, including to the Cubs, and has stated firmly and often that he does not want to be traded and/or that he wants to play in San Diego.

So unless San Diego gets a second Major League team, it's the Padres or nowhere, as far as Giles is concerned.

Now having said that, he MIGHT change his mind if the heat he is taking locally over his well publicized domestic issue continues to escalate; but he has not made any indication so far that this is the case.

Posted by BroLight on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 14:43
Giles

I follow the Cubs very closely, and do not recall one word about the Cubs making a trade offer for Giles, nor that he turned down any offers other than one from Boston. If you have evidence otherwise, I'd love to know the source so I could read or listen to it. I did read quotes from Giles as I said, in which he explained the reasons for rejecting the trade to Boston and stated that he wouldn't be opposed to being traded to the right situation.

Posted by WSorBust on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 18:45
Giles

Not everything reaches print! That means you have to know people to know what's going on, and I still do.

Apparently you don't read close enough, because much of this did reach print, but I'm not "digging them out" for you.

The Cubs tried three times to get him. Once from the Pirates before he went to the Pads. Again in the winter of 05-06 when they settled for Jones, again that summer when Jones got off to such a poor start and the Pads were looking for LH hitting. The Cubs had Hairston and Walker playing 2nd when he was playing 1b for the injured Lee. The Cubs were thinking of acquiring Marcus and Brian, and offered Walker as part of the package for Brian.

In Pittsburgh he made it known that he wanted to go home to California to play. In SD he made it known that he didn't want to play "East of the Rockies", and later the Pads were rumored to be trying to get Marcus, and although the Cubs were making a good offer, he wanted to play with his brother and didn't want to leave California.

He still doesn't want to leave California!

Posted by BroLight on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 21:34
Giles

No offense, but just because you claim to know people, doesn't prove that you have any sort of inside scoop. And I could care less if the Cubs had tried to acquire Giles a dozen times in the distant past. I was referring to the last trading deadline when Giles turned down the chance to go to the Red Sox, and pointed out that his reasons had to do with the timing of achieving his 10/5 rights as well as the fact that he wasn't assured that he'd be a starter or even play much at all for Boston. Years ago, when the Padres were competitive, what incentive was there for Giles to agree to a trade that would take him away from San Diego? The answer is zero. Things have changed now that the Padres have cut payroll in half, said goodbye to Trevor Hoffman and are trying to trade their ace Jake Peavy. Giles can see the writing on the wall, and came out and said he'd be open to a trade. Ideally, he probably would prefer to play with his brother or to remain with a team in California. But he didn't say he'd only approve of a trade that would fit into that ideal scenario. Lastly, just because the Cubs tried to acquire Giles in the past, doesn't mean that the trade proposals fell thru because Giles exercised his no-trade rights. Maybe they fell thru because the Padres didn't like the players that were offered for Giles.

Posted by WSorBust on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 23:43
Giles

If you want to believe that, it is fine with me.

Giles didn't need 5 & 10 rule to stop the trade to Boston. He has had no trade protection in his contract since he signed his contract for 06!!!!! The 5/10 was just his "excuse" as has been his custom.

Get back to me when Brian Giles is playing for a team outside of California!

In the meantime, I've got better things to do.

Posted by BroLight on Fri, 01/30/2009 - 01:49
Confused!!!

I'm not overly excited about this trade. Where does he fit? How easy is it to stretch a guy out who has been in relief for 5 years? Maybe we get a Ryan Dempster like resurgence...which we will need because Ryan Dempster will probably fall back to his baseball averages next year (which aren't good). 52 million for a career 4.55 and 1.49 WHIP...ouch. Especially, with the deals out there on other pitchers. Jon Garland got 6 million...and his stats are better then Dempsters in the AL. We could have gotten Garland or Sheets and Wolf

Bruce, what about an insentive filled contract for Ben Sheets...less risk then taking on Peavy's 81 million(5th year). Hope that you catch lightning in a bottle with Harden and Sheets? I can't imagine sheets will get much more then a 1 year deal. Hendry seems to be in to the rehabilitation projects.

Posted by Riggs on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 17:24
Hard to Figure, but...

This is one trade that makes no sense to me, unless it was cleared through Towers to utilize Olson in the deal in order to acquire Heilman (another enigma) and making another pitcher on the Cubs roster available to Towers in the Peavy deal.

I just don't see the Peavy deal going away, unless the prospective new Cubs owner has already said no to the increased payroll. Putting someone like Heilman into the mix with the Cubs suggests that a pitcher like Gaudin might now be available for the Peavy deal. Of course, I always considered him "available", anyway. Just as long as Marshall remains unavailable! Trading Sean would be a HUGE mistake, even as part of a deal for Peavy.

Heilman is that enigma I mentioned before. Hendry has coveted him in the past, and that was OK THEN, when the Cubs were needing pitching and Heilman was looking good. But now? Just what does he bring to the Cubs that they don't already have an abundance of?

Certainly it wasn't just a deal to get rid of Cedeno. There has been growing interest in him from several teams; and Jim wouldn't throw in a useful piece for the Peavy deal just to move Ronny......but why???

So if Heilman doesn't warrant Hendry's interest, and he doesn't.....And if Jim wouldn't literally "throw away" Olson to move Cedeno, and he wouldn't... What in tarnation is this deal about????

Could it be a wake-up call to two different prospective trade partners, that if THEY don't make a move soon, more of the pieces they were interested in would be gone?

It's a real head-scratcher. If I haven't scratched out the rest of my hair before I figure it out, I'll let you know! And if I do lose the rest of my hair over this deal, you won't hear from me again, nor even about me after the news dies down after my wife's arrest for murder!

Posted by BroLight on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 15:38
A second thought....

As I mentioned above, this could make sense if the prospective new Cubs owner has nixed the increased payroll, but after thinking about that a little longer, I just don't see him doing that. Even if he would, I don't see it at this point in negotiations.

There is another scenario that fits....

Hendry could have been told, or could have come to the conclusion on his own, that the decision on ownership approval is going to take the Peavy decision too late into the Spring to let it interfere with other aspects of getting the team ready for 09.

On that front, being able to get a serious candidate for the backup catching slot on board now, is not something that should be delayed much longer, and they needed a roster spot to make that happen. When coupled with the opportunity for Hendry to get a pitcher, that for whatever reason he has coveted, he needed to pull the trigger and let the Peavy deal rest on what he is able to provide in a deal when he is in a position to make that decision. I know that's not earth shaking news, but the fact remains that it could be as simple as that.

Of course it COULD be that Jim just needed to add another unusual notch in his deal making belt, and it's pretty hard to top making deals while on a heart monitor in a hospital. But making a deal while on vacation in Italy, would certainly qualify for one of those notches! Someone (Bruce) should kid him about this when he gets back to work.

Posted by BroLight on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 20:26
I think this is a pretty

I think this is a pretty good deal for us. I've never been a Ronny Cedeno guy. He can hit the first month or so of a season, but struggles as the season goes on. This has happened the last 3 yrs. It's like what one scout said in a fantasy mag "He swings at anything within 5 feet of the strike zone." Heilman had an off year, but he's had more good than bad in his career.

Posted by Stogie on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 14:45
I'm waiting to see

But I must admit Hendry doesn't seem to have a plan other than "get lefthanded".

Posted by bucky on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 13:44
So

It seems like this means one of three things

1) The Padres are done shopping Peavy

2) The Cubs are done pursuing Peavy

3) The Padres are no longer interested in Olson

If Hendry is indeed serous about pursuing Peavy in the future, then why would he have traded away a guy the Padres have wanted very badly? It doesn't make sense. What is going on?

Really this just lookslike another awful trade in an awful offseason, regardless of the fact that Olson was thought to be involved in a potential trade. Cedeno and Olson for Aaron Heilman is a bad trade and a poor use of resources.

I'm really done giving Jim the benefit of the doubt, as he has done nothing but significantly downgrade the team all offseason by overpaying for mediocre and/or injury prone players just because they hit left handed.

Posted by Skiba17 on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 13:35
So

The only thing that is awful about the trade is that Hendry didn't deal Pie sooner while he had more trade value. Hendry's unwillingness to part with Pie a year ago was a huge factor in the potential deal for Brian Roberts falling thru. Look at their stats and you can't actually feel that Pie and Cedeno for Heilman and Henry Williamson wasn't in favor of the Cubs. Heilman was pitching thru knee tendinitis last year and his stats suffered. But for the three previous seasons, the best the opposition could must against Heilman was a .231 BA, .299 OBP, .355 SLG%, and a .631 OPS. Heilman's best during that same time period were a .223
BA, .279 OBP, .299 SLG, and .595. Those are fantastic numbers. His numbers as a starting pitcher can't possibly be valued as meaningfull since they were compiled while he was just getting his feet wet in the majors. If Heilman does earn the 5th spot in the Cubs rotation and fails, he could always be moved to the bullpen where he was extremely effective until last year when he was pitching thru his knee tendinitis. As for the pitching prospect the Cubs acquired in the Pie deal, Henry Williamson, he had 42 strikeouts and only 5 BB's to go with a 1.03 WHIP and 3.72 ERA in 29 innings pitched between low A and A ball last year at age 22. That screams potential, especially the 8-1 SO/BB ratio and better than 13 SO's per IP.

Posted by WSorBust on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 14:23
Pie

Actually, Hendry's not wanting to include Pie in the Roberts deal had NOTHING to do with the failure of that deal!

In the end, whatever the hangup was, Hendry agreed to it only to have MacPhail pull the deal off the table at the last minute.

That is why, if there is a Roberts deal in the Cubs future, Hendry will not approach MacPhail about it. Andy will have to call Jim!

Posted by BroLight on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 14:49
Pie

I wasn't just blowing smoke there. I heard it on XM radio MLB Homeplate, that the unwillingness of the Cubs to include Pie in the deal is what caused the Roberts trade to fall thru. MacPhail pulled the deal off the table because the Cubs wouldn't include Pie, according to the source from Boston. I didn't catch his name, but they have been playing the quote as one of their commercials, so I'll post it if I hear it again.

Posted by WSorBust on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 18:55
Pie

You can't believe everything you hear.... especially on XM radio. I doubt that Pie was the reason Roberts didn't end up in Chicago. By almost all accounts the Orioles were just being unreasonale and asking for too much. It seems the Lou/Jim had already started to sour on Pie a bit before 2008 even started, and we know they wanted Roberts badly..... so I doubt that held it up.

Posted by Skiba17 on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 23:02
more Pie please...

You won't hear it again, because that is NOT what happened.

Early on Hendry refused to give up Pie, but at the end he was in the deal, and just as I said before MacPhail, NOT Hendry, pulled out at the last minute.

I have a suggestion for you.... why don't you email Kap about it. He sometimes answers email from fans and he covered it on Sports Central. The last time was just a few weeks ago.

Posted by BroLight on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 21:39