Do Cubs need 12 pitchers?
One of the more curious aspects of covering the Cubs all these years has been the organization's insistence on carrying 12 pitchers at the major-league level. It was that way under Dusty Baker when he was field manager, and it's like that now under Lou Piniella.
I could see the need for 12 pitchers _ well, maybe not _ if Lou was actually going to use 12 pitchers. But right now, the Cubs are carrying 12 while using only 11. In other words, they have essentially an 11-man pitching staff without benefit of the extra position player.
The guy the Cubs are trying to hide here is rookie David Patton, the Rule 5 kid out of Colorado they obtained at the winter meetings in a trade with the Reds. Having Patton on the roster would be all well and good if the Cubs were actually going to use him. As it is, Patton hasn't appeared in a game since May 9 at Milwaukee, when he gave up 3 hits, 1 walk and 2 runs in two-thirds of an inning. Before that, Patton pitched May 5 and May 1. Since the 9th, he's warmed up, but he hasn't gotten into a game.
This seems unfair to Patton, who hadn't pitched above Class A ball until this year and who needs the work, both to stay sharp and to rebuild the confidence he had in spring training, when he wowed the Cubs and made the team.
Patton isn't the only guy Lou is reluctant to use these days. Lefty Neal Cotts went from May 9 until Sunday between games, and Lou seems to like Sean Marshall as his lefty in the pen.
Although the offense has found a spark of late, the Cubs still could use the extra bat. How about calling longtime organization guy Jake Fox, who has been atop all three Triple Crown categories as he completely destroys the Pacific Coast League at Class AAA Iowa? Now ol' Jake isn't going to give you much defense. Heck the Cubs have tried him at catcher, the infield corners and the outfield corners, and they haven't much liked what they've seen. But the people I've talked with say Jake is flat-out a major-league hitter. He could give D-Lee a break at first base and come out later for defense. With Mike Fontenot slumping badly, you could put Jake at third to start a ballgame and get him out later. And, of course, he could pinch hit and get you a knock.
Anyway, it's all well and good to say you need 12 pitchers. But if you're going to say that, you ought to use them.
Speaking of pitchers, Randy Wells figures to stay with the team when Big Z comes off the DL on Friday. Lou could move Marshall down to the pen and keep Wells in the rotation, where he has an 0.00 ERA over 11 innings in his 2 starts. He should have gotten his first major-league win on Saturday, but Kevin Gregg blew a 4-0 lead in the ninth.
Wells' WHIP (walks plus hits per 1 inning pitched) is a respectable 1.27 and is actually best among Cubs starters, but with a small sample size. If Marshall goes to the bullpen after Thursday's start, Wells could be your No. 5 starter for at least a little while.
last year we had a strong bench, this year it's obvious it's weak....can't win with a weak bench.....
hope you're feeling better....we miss you....
I'll blog something later today. Got more "soreness" than "pain" right now. I appreciate the regards. And thanks to Len and Bob for the shout-out last night.
bring up fox, what are they afraid of? let Fonz/Lee sit a few games.
good morning all.......is Jake fox the worse defensive player ever to play baseball? of the present cubs alternatives at 3rd is he the worse by far? have they gave up on scales already? what's the sense in keeping Cotts and or Patton if you don't use them? is peavy playing for a trade, to the cubs? ........have a good day guys
.Lee won't approve a trade so that's out....he has a no trade clause....
He also has 10-5 rights (10 years in the bigs, five with the same club), which supersede all. The "trade Lee" stuff is a non-starter.
12 Pitchers?
We would need only 11 if they could all pitch and we got rid of Larry--who has never developed even one pitcher. With all our trades with Baltimore--why couldn't we trade to get Rick Kranitz back??
According to the Mets’ Web site:
Barring a trade, the Mets will proceed over the next 10 weeks using a combination of Fernando Tatis, Jeremy Reed and Daniel Murphy at first base. None has significant experience at the position; Reed made an error in the 11th inning Monday that allowed the Dodgers to score the winning run in a 3-2 victory over the Mets.
Here is the solution to this and the Cubs’ problems:
Cubs trade Lee and some cash (he is owed $13M next Year) with Neil Cotts to the Mets for prospects. Move Hoffpauir to 1B, Marshall to the pen, Ascanio to AAA and Wells to long relief and spot-start.
Look for DeRosa to be traded soon and the Brewers will want him because Weeks is out for the season—Really bad news for the Cubs--strongly consider trading prospects and Miles and Jake Fox (No NL position and leading the minors in HRs) for a starter like Cliff Lee who will be dealt and DeRosa. BTW—Looks like AZ will be dealing Brandon Webb but he may have a bum flipper.
Or--trade Lee and Cotts and bring up Fox as a PH and right handed compliment to Hoffpauir . But--trade Lee!
Bruce,
Is there any truth to the rumors that the Cubs are reluctant to bring up Fox because he got into Lou's doghouse during his brief call-up a couple of season's ago?
If that were true, the Cubs would have a two-man roster because Lou gets mad at everybody from time to time.
And he got belligerent. "Ask Lou and Larry about using pitchers. It's up to them." "Need 12. Gotta have 'em."
A sure sign that there is no good answer.
I think Hendry's done a lot more good than bad as GM, but this makes no sense at all.
Bruce,
ditto on everything said here.....but early in the year Lou said he'd like to carry 13 pitchers....10 would make a manager manage......11 now a days would be best.....gives you another position player and fox would fit that role.....have a great day guys......
Bruce,
Does Cotts have any options left? I'm thinking no. Do you think the Cubs are looking around baseball trying to trade for a left hander out of the bullpen to replace Cotts? He's been awful this year.
The Cubs have gone 30+ games with Patton they might as well stick it out and keep him for the full year so they can send him down to AAA next year. Have you heard anything about Donald Veal with Pittsburgh? I've seen he's been used, well very rarely to say the least! Does Pittsburgh plan on keeping him for the year?
Thanks.
At the very least Fox should have playing 3rd base every day at Iowa since the day Aramis went on the DL, just to give him some reps and to see if there's any chance he can handle the position at all. Then Lou and everyone in the organization could feel more comfortable about dropping the 12th pitcher and calling up the hottest hitter in baseball.
Instead I see that he's been playing mostly first base, a position where the Cubs are already 2 deep on the big league roster. I understand that he's going to be a defensive liability wherever he plays, but this doesn't show a lot of foresight.
Fox hit his 17th homer of the season last night and had 4 RBI. Baseball people always say, "If you can hit, we'll find a place for you." Maybe the Cubs should be looking for that place now.
Fox was the starting catcher last night. That's the first time he's caught in I can't think how long. It wasn't pretty (2 passed balls, 1 base stealer thrown out but 2 successful), but he stayed there the whole game. He started at third base a few days ago. I think Iowa's kinda banged up at the moment like the Cubs were earlier this season -- you know, a bunch of guys too hurt to play but not hurt enough to go on the DL -- so we will likely see Fox at further positions other than first base in the upcoming days.
Based on the way Lou uses the bullpen, the answer to your question is "no." They only need 6 pitchers. Carlos Marmol and the 5 starters. I hope the kids arm does not fall off before the 4th of July.
The Cubs definitely need some more quality guys in the bullpen. That is my biggest worry. Your blog mentions Jake Fox. Do you think the Mets would be interested in him in exchange for a reliable guy in the bullpen? Or will the NY market demand a proven name to fill in for Degado?
It's been surprisingly quiet for Fox. There has been talk of AL teams, for whom he could DH, but there really hasn't been a whole lot of serious interest.
Fox is up to 130 ABs and is still hitting over .420 -- at the moment, almost .440 because he started today's game 2 for 2 (but no extra base hits -- yet). That he has, in addition, hit 17 homers and knocked in 50 RBI in just 34 games is just mind-boggling. And his home park has held him back rather than helped: on the road, Jake is batting over .500 with a slugging percentage over 1.100. Though even his home numbers are excellent: his OPS there is over 1.000, and his .660 slugging percentage at home would be fourth in the league at the moment even if he weren't scaling it up so outrageously on the road (Fox has 294 point advantage over the #2 guy in slugging percentage, compared with his 25 point lead in batting and his 36 point OBP lead). His home run rate has dropped this month from the absurd 1 homer ever 6 ABs he hit in April; he's hitting "only" a homer every 10 ABs in May. And in other respects, his numbers in May suggest legitimate improvement...
Per Iowa's web site, Fox's batting average, home runs, RBI, runs scored, extra-base hits, total bases, slugging percentage, and on-base percentage lead all of minor league baseball (majors too, for that matter).
No.
And the sooner they send Patton back the better. This is not the time to waste a roster spot.
I agree...they should either use all the pitchers or carry one less of them. Problem with Patton is they would have to be prepared to lose him if they hope to try to send him to the minors, since he's "the rule 5 guy". Of course, the way he's pitched, that might not be much of a risky proposition. Fox is killing the ball at AAA but it's hard to see him getting more of a role than primary RH pinch hitter barring a trip to the DL for Lee, Bradley, or Soriano. The Hoff is going to spell Lee and be the primary backup for Lee and the corner OF, as well he should. Many are still convinced that the Hoff will fail if given extended playing time, with the mindset that it took him so long to make the majors that he must not be much of a prospect. I say if a guy has killed the ball in AAA, he's going to at least be a quality hitter in the bigs. Hitters typically hit their prime in their upper twenties. There are countless stories about players who made the bigs at a young age (like Felix Pie for example) and flopped horribly.
One of the problems and a reason the Cubs are keeping 12 arms is all the walks the bullpen issues.
Cubs need a blowout (either way) and let Patton pitch a few innings.
Hate to see Marshall shuffled off (yet again) to the bullpen. Thanks, Neal.
If the present bullpen occupants are walking too many guys, or giving up too many hits.....then get rid of what you can and replace them with what you've got! Marmol, Gregg and Heilmann are pretty much entrenched and will just have to try to work their way back into Control-land, but if Lou has no confidence in Patton or Cotts, then it's time to cut bait and see who else can do the job. It's not like the Cubs picked the 2nd Coming of Orel Hershiser and are trying to wangle him through the league. God bless Patton but this team has a window and needs performers in every pen spot.
As I've seen Jake Fox's stats inflate these first 6 weeks of the season, it's almost embarrassing for the Cubs to keep him at Iowa. Especially considering they lost their best bat. They can hide Hoffpauir in RF a game or two, they can certainly do that with Fox at 3B and 1B for at least a couple 7 innings stints. He and Hoffpauir could be the perfect left/right bat combo off the bench, negating at least one or two bullpen calls by the opposition.