Tallon: We didn't overpay

Tallon: We didn't overpay

Posted by TimS on Wed, 07/08/2009 - 14:45

Blackhawks GM Dale Tallon admitted Wednesday the team made a mistake getting qualifying contract offers to his restricted free agents on time but claimed the goof did not force them to overpay for Kris Versteeg and Cam Barker.
Versteeg and Barker signed three-year, $9.25 million contract extensions after earning $984,000 and $490,000 last season, respectively.
"I think that we got them at fair market value," Tallon said. "When you compare the comparables, looking at the point production of Barker and Versteeg and all the other players, those numbers are right in line with what they possibly would have gotten in arbitration. We're happy to get them long term."
Tallon said the Hawks are under the NHL's $56.8 million salary cap.
"We can play right now with this team, and this is with 23 players," Tallon said. "We're basically going to carry 22 or 21."
Tallon didn't go into details about what exactly happened with the qualifying offers and why they were late.
"We were late filing this year," he said. "It's something we had not done in the past, but for a couple reasons we were a little bit late. We should have filed earlier. It was something we shouldn't have done.
"It won't happen again."

Kyle Beach!

As i stated in my last post, this camp is not an indicator of who is gonna make the team, Its just an avenue for the players to show their stuff to the brass.

How they fit in with the current Hawks, being pushed by the vets, developing chemistry and their play versus higher competition in training camp will be the true measuring stick.

Will Aliu skate around as confidently as he did during the mini camp with Eager and Burish in his ear? The intimidation factor is something Kyle Beach has already dealt with on a larger scale than has Aliu from training camp last year. It is true there is more competition this year but for the points above i would think he is better prepared mentally to make the jump!

But personally i would give them another year to hone their skills or at least till the trading deadline. Besides we can be patient ..it is up to them!

Posted by boldirev on Mon, 07/13/2009 - 12:23
Dale gets axed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He made some mistakes but was real good all and all.Scotty has a way of setting coworkers up to fail,and I'm sure he was ruthless when it came to setting his boy up,hopefully he is as good as Dale

Posted by beelzeebub666 on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 00:18
HP

I think this is Skille`s year to push someone off the active roster. He is more polished than Beach/Aliu at this point and Brouwer, Burish and Eager and others make those two rookies a longshot to begin the year in Chicago.

Depth is a wonderful problem to have...

Sharp Toews Kane

Versteeg Bolland Hossa

Ladd Madden Byfuglien

Eager Kopecky Brouwer

*Beach Burish Skille

Fraser Aliu

Posted by boldirev on Mon, 07/13/2009 - 12:42
Skille, Beech/Aliu or a surprise

I know Skille was purposely moved from line to line, but he played more with Kontiola than anyone else. He was working on a few things in his game....you have to project the role he would play if he makes Chicago, and whose job he takes....I think before we can guess at that, we wait and see if he is used as the extra toss in to complete a trade. In an earlier post, I mentioned that he might fill a need for some other team due to his speed on a PK and a regular line. But I hear what you're saying and I think that if they are intrigued enough by Aliu, he'll make the team ahead of Skille. Training camp battles may or may not include how well Aliu mixes in with a professional environment; would it be better for him to develop some camaderie with players in Rockford, and maybe a couple peek recall? Could he be a good insert in playoffs next year, when sometimes the team that survives the injuries (it's a war, this long season) goes deep in the playoff run? Lots of scenarios, and the first of many questions may not even play out until a trade is consummated as late as training camp? Then, too, does Quenneville value Skille more for what he brings, or what Aliu brings to a deep lineup? That Skille is more polished...maybe you're right, but, again, lots of questions and scenario's to consider at this "time."

Posted by hockeypuck on Mon, 07/13/2009 - 19:54
HP

Good post on Skille Aliu and Beach..i guess we will see what the Bowmans think as a new dynamic is about to hit the hawks. Scott and Stan probably have a different vision for the roster...what do you think they will do first?

PS i really do believe Aliu needs a year in Rockford!

Posted by boldirev on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 05:30
McKee signs with Penguins

Jay McKee signed for 1 year at $800,000. For that price he would have been a good fit on the Hawks blueline. I realize he is signing with the defending Cup champions, but the Hawks should be right there too.

Posted by mitzua17 on Sun, 07/12/2009 - 17:13
Jhawk (beach)

Im not putting too much stock on what he does against rookies...Its what he or Aliu does in training camp against the team that will determine who or any rookies getting a chance to make it.

Beach was close last year but we added depth and some players stepped it up big time this last year including Bolland, Vertseeg, Byfuglien, Ladd etc. Who is to say someone out of the blue knocks the proverbial door down and forces a vet out...could be Beach.

If he or Aliu make it..you know they earned it!

Posted by boldirev on Sat, 07/11/2009 - 13:43
Kyle Beach

Here's what Tim wrote about him......

"Kyle Beach, the Hawks' 2008 first-round draft pick, had 2 goals and 3 assists and probably was the most impressive player at camp'

My question is it seems we're getting conflicting reports about Beach. I've read in other publications that he still has a way to go. Unfortunately when I went to the prospects camp I missed his game so what have you guys seen and heard about him? Does he have a chance to make the team this year in the event the Hawks make a deal? Who is closer to making the team Beach or Aliu?

Posted by jhawk159 on Sat, 07/11/2009 - 13:34
Beach is a mixed bag; future Blackhawk

Beach still and maybe always has an issue with his skating. He returns to juniors if he doesn't make team. He stuck around late in camp last year because at that time, we didn't know/foresee development (role) a Ladd, Brouwer, Bufuglien would play. Beach could stand in front of the net, battle in corners and generally agitate and be of value to his team in Chicago. But he really should concentrate on his skating -- can he do that while back in junior again? Yeah, he would look nice one day riding shotgun because of his temperment and skill combination, not because he wins fights. It is his competiveness that makes his agressive play stand out/he won't scare/but will make plays/get the puck and he is good blueline in (or down low) because he has soft hands, a good shot/accuracy and is strong. I wonder how long a Burrish, possibly Brouwer, even Eager sticks around once Beech and Aliu are ready. Fraser, too, but Fraser can always play occasionally and he won't be complaining type. Aliu is cklearly ahead of Beech, if only Aliu has maturity to match his play. Aliu is skilled and has powerful stride -- he's a big guy who may be only new player capable of making team (he preps at Rockford if he doesn't make team). Personally I'd love Eager with those two rookies. I can live without Burrish, although how well will someone else play pest role?

Posted by hockeypuck on Mon, 07/13/2009 - 11:51
Better than Walker

The Douglas Murray acquisition I proposed was intended as a salary dump(Campbell), and filling the need for a tough D-man. I don't keep tabs on every single NHL players' salary like the rest of you guys, but the 3 way trade I mentioned a few days ago should free up around 5 mil.
Did Walker win anything here or in St. Louis? No, but everybody's talking about how much the Hawks are going to miss his toughness. Murray's skating improved this past season. He's no Brian Campbell, but he is a better skater than Walker. This is a move that would give the Hawks some flexibility at the trade deadline and the following off-season.

Posted by biodrummindieseler on Sat, 07/11/2009 - 12:06
kane

Funny to get caught up here and read a lot of Kane trade talk...that he's the expendable one. I wrote of trading Kane in the first half of last season and most of you said I was nuts. I even proposed Kane for Shea Weber and a pick or Kane for Getzlaf and no one agreed with me. You had to see the 2010 cap coming. I still like the Kane for Weber deal. I agree with those saying he isn't going anywhere though. Management has made him and 19 the face of marketing the franchise. We all like Kane, including myself, but business is business. With the talent in the organization it would appear that making the playoffs won't be a problem in the near future. It's time to add playoff type guys. Guys who score 13 goals a season and 8 in the playoffs. Not saying Fedetenko, but along that line. 1961...so long monkey!

Posted by sixthandeighth on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 23:36
business and Kane

Business comment - yea right. Rocky has stated that he wants to run the team like a business. But the last RFA fiasco is bad business. Kane and Toews are good for business. They aren't going anywhere.

I am mixed on Kane. Offensive skills are incredible, but defensive skills are non-existent. The kid is young and will want a big paycheck, but really doesn't deserve it yet. The question - will he be dominant force in the playoffs - he does well when healthy and given room. He held his own during the Calgary series. I do like Getzlaf. I hope Kane wants to develop into datsyuk type of player.

Posted by TopShelf on Sat, 07/11/2009 - 12:53
Lookie here...!

Someone is taking responsibility for their actions.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/hockey/blackhawks/chi-09-blackhawks...

That's good, Dale owned up to a mistake. May even have saved his job. While I'm fairly certain they could have approached the RFA portion of their roster assembly better (they did very well in the UFA arena), I really want to see him and the 'Hawks mgmt team go out and complete the last couple pieces of a puzzle.

Here's hoping they have a few good plans to mitigate risk on the salary cap for the next few years; starting this summer.

Posted by daddio on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 17:43
D he took the blame but

he wasn't the cuprit.

Posted by TheREALWiz on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 22:37
How do you know for sure?

OK, so it technically wasn't Dale's "job" to do that. So what if it were someone else's job to do the QO's. Don't those folks report to Dale? Isn't Dale responsible for his employees?

I kept hearing the word, "accountability" from JohnnyM. So who's accountable? I'm still glad Dale had the stones to come out and say what he said.

OK, going forward, they still have to start moving monies this off season. They can't wait until after next season to do this and keep most/all of these "core" guys.

Posted by daddio on Sat, 07/11/2009 - 10:16
How's a Rookie (Versteeg) a Free Agent?

I am obviously a hockey novice - can someone please explain to me how Versteeg (a rookie last year) can be eligible for any form of free-agency (I know he is restricted) after one year? I don't get the NHL bargaining agreement at all. Tim or some other blogger - please enlighten me.

Posted by Charlieboy on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 11:03
It goes like this

Versteeg was 18 drafted in 2004 and signed with Boston where he played about a dozen games with their AHL affiliate the end of 2006 so he turned PRO at 20 years of age. He was signed a two way deal and recvd a three year deal which ended after this season (and in Feb. 2007 he was traded to Hawks. A players second contract is RFA RECTRICTED ONE.
To keep the player, the parent club, MUST fill paperwork (and in most cases THAT IS ALL it IS!) with a 10 % raise on that first deal.
Other teams can try and poach the player but they only get the player if
a) the Parent club chooses not to match the amount the poaching club offered
b) the poaching club pays a HUGE new salary and ALSO gives away draft picks commensurate to the dollars they just paid the RFA and Draft picks ARE MORE VALUBLE NOW than ever!
c) all the parent club has to do is match.

If the RFA doesn't get any offers but feels he deserves more money (any many many do) they negotiate, and if they REACH DEADLOCK the player can take his case to ARBITRATION and both sides meet with "judge" who decides his worth in comparisons to other players stats etc. and IT CAN BE NASTY when your home team GM has to try and rip you a new one to win in court.
The Hawks in the past have traded many players who BEAT them and got big raises...

Posted by TheREALWiz on Sun, 07/12/2009 - 15:21
Versteeg and RFA.

Charlie my friend. He wasn't "after one year. He probably signed a 3 year deal for his 1st contract.

Played in the AHL, as a pro, and got called up and down.

But not enough to not be classified a rookie this past year ( I think its 10 games).

So, he made it count...and was in for a raise. It would have went to arbitration and Versteeg had a strong case.

But I disagree that the raise would have been that high in arbitration. From 490,000 to 3. whatever?

Naahhh...for his points he would have got in the 2 million-ish range. Arbitration gives raises for good seasons, but 6 times his previous salary?

So, Tallon, or whomever's mistake did have a real cost, no matter how good ol' Dale spins it.

Peace

Posted by dan from van on Sat, 07/11/2009 - 02:15
I think the 10 games comes

I think the 10 games comes in to play if the player is in juniors the NHL team can play him up to 10 games. At anytime during the 10 games they have the option of returning him to the junior team without the player losing junior elegibility. After 10 the player would lose junior elegibility. The thing I'm not sure about is the player would lose elegibitity when he plays the 10th game or when he plays the next one.

Posted by jhawk159 on Sat, 07/11/2009 - 08:20
Nice try dan

can you be anymore vague?

Posted by boldirev on Sat, 07/11/2009 - 07:44
vague?

OK Boldy...whatever. I gave the facts as I know them. If they are vague to you, perhaps a class in reading comprehension.

Or are you just giving a shot? I seem to be the one that tries not to do that Boldy...I like the hawks, and am respectful to Hawks fans.

But hey...entitled to your opinion!

Posted by dan from van on Mon, 07/13/2009 - 19:22
dan

Read what he asked and than what you and i wrote back.

this has nothing to do with disrespect. My comments good and bad come from passion for my hawks and you are here just to try and start fights...this will be my last response to you...nice try and good luck to the nucks!

Posted by boldirev on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 05:38
Vertseeg

He was supposed to be a restricted free agent meaning we held his rights and could match any offer another team gave to him. The only sticking point is we had to offer him a QO (Qualifying Offer) by 29 june 09 this year and the mail or so it goes,, was late!!!

Under the CBA if he didnt recieve this offer in time, he would be considered a UFA (unrestricted free agent) meaning no one held his rights and he could sign with whomever team he chose and the Hawks would not get any compensation.

The NHLPA put in a grievance and an arbitrator would rule on the matter to what his status was RFA or UFA...so rather than wait for a ruling Dale Tallon signed him to a 3 year deal.

PS all Tallon had to do was offer a 10% raise to keep his rights as an RFA

hope this helps

Posted by boldirev on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 11:18
Boldy I am WITH not against you

As John J say, as Hawk fans who wear that Indianhead on our hearts, we should bear no ill will to each, other and with all the scrimmaging, come out when the games ends as friends and worthy opponents. I was was WITH you when the Tallon name calling started.
I wish I knew all that I did when my wife and I drove the Roadtrek through Nova scotia and PIE for 22 days in september 2007, as I would have parked in your driveway. (saw part of the Islanders camp where the CAT dropped us off, and were in Thuro for the "Kraft" game and then saw Halifax after staying in Dartmouth campground and the PIE team b/c I wanted to see the LA goalie prospect.
Hockey puck was at the Propsects game and in fact a lot of us met for the first time, and we picked up more smart hawk fans as they listedned to us intelligently talking the game to each other.
I certainly don't MEAN to come here an demean. I learned thsi sport in the 50s/60's when my dad bought the extra ticket of the six Italian guys who had season tix and went back as far as Johnny Mariucci and Cooper as a defensive pairing, and they talked explained as we watched.
It is a little more difficult in words to try and explain differences in players weaknesses strengths on paper, but when I see someone posting that doesn't see it I try to point it out.
It is a sad day b/c my wife and I lost a dear friend, but I just felt I needed to get back to the blog and try and clear some air.

and my point about the Hockey News was they are not the experts either. They thrive on opinion and controversy.

I do think much of what I wrote on June 26th after playoff run has moved in the forefront of the Hawk fan/team discussion though....

http://www.sportsology.info/article.php?ArticleID=7360

Posted by TheREALWiz on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 09:35
Sportsology!

I have a few points about that article:

1. I am or was conservative because we are certain to take a dip in our spiral up. Anaheim has a nice team despite the pronger loss and underachieving last year until the playoffs. I think a couple of teams will join us this year in fighting to knock the wings off the pedestal. Im sure the Ducks are one and look at the Flames defence..man alive Regher, Phanuef and Sarich and they add Bouwmeester...groan! I have accepted us splurging (hossa) but was prepared to go it without Havlat/Khabby and grow.

2. St Louis age 34 salary salary 4 mill...what is not to like about this man?

3. Puck moving defenceman and Cam Barker..as in my infatuation with Bolland, I think this guy will be better the more minutes he gets. Nice kid and wants to learn and loves the game. Yes we paid for the future but we have 5 defenceman that can move the puck and i rem a few years ago when we didnt have any..or so it seemed!

4. And lastly identifying the core...I contemplate this daily..really i do. Toews Kane Bolland Versteeg Byfuglien Ladd Keith Seabrook Barker Hjalmarsson..Hossa/Campbell by default (contracts)

Beach Aliu must earn the roster spot..by not knocking on the door but by kicking it in to play on this deep team! Than there is Troy Brouwer he may not have the ability/opportunity to score in the NHL unless he gets powerplay time the way he did in Junior. It would be a mistake to write this guy off cuz you could stick him in front of the net just like we were doing with Buff. Before his career is over he may have a few 30 goal seasons in him..its just what opportunity is gonna represent itself to him. He isnt elite but there is something there.

feel free to hack this up gentleman..ive been wrong before..although i vowed not to be ever again...haha

Posted by boldirev on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 11:11
Wiz

You were talking about 2007 when you went to PEI...i misread...

So what are your views for our roster this year? I cant rem ever having this much depth to start the season but im probably being too optimistic.

Posted by boldirev on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 09:53
It was September 2006

Without a doubt this is by far the strongest Hawk team, maybe EVER!

By core I was talking about the NON GOALIE guys that are gonna be guaranteed BIG 4-8 mil contracts or 12 year ones. I figure you have Campbell Keith Seabrook Toews Hossa Kane and Sharp (he is close to 4mil ) by virtue or their present or future contracts.

That is not to say they are UNTOUCHABLES.
Just that the rest of your roster IS not ALLOWED to make that much, unless one of two the "core" go.
(If you pay more than you have for the middle and bottom end you have CAP problems.)

Just an example now and not a suggestion, but Versteeg's best years come in this next contract, in the final part, you are looking for a trading partner, because he will have reached his high water mark.
BUFF IS AT THE MARK...if the season doesn't bring all Buff all the time no need to worry how anyone is getting signed because they clear his contract.

Bolland- I love Bolland's upside and at the end of this contract you see where he fits by his improvement or leveling off, and either up his rate or find a trade partner.

I know this looks silly, but you need your Ladd's and Eager's and Brouwers if they are to play STRONG complimentary roles, and you NEED them more than the aforementioned #3mil + - 4 mil + players and even Sharp's reasonable salary can bring you Cap relief and good trade return of players with upside. And Kane must be reasonable too because he is not the polished gem yet either.

And so trade return on both Barker and Hjalmarsson (to a lesser extent unless NHL ready replacements fall out on Rockford's woodwork) is also tied to there improvement.

The point is the delicate balance of vet and youth is now in place, and now smart shopping (draft and UFA) ,and trading assures the essential elements are in place to keep re-loading each year for a Cup run, and the fear of CAP woes that McKenzie and the Hockey news are playing up are fixable every year with any severe downgrading.

I hope my earlier comments are becoming clearer.

Posted by TheREALWiz on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 23:08
Prospects footage/trade idea

Have any of you taped some footage from the prospects camp? How about putting it up on youtube?

How's this for a three way trade: Campbell to Ottawa for Heatley, Heatley to San Jose for Douglas Murray. I've been following the Sharks out here in NorCal for a while, and I've never seen anyone knock this guy down. He held his own with Parros as well.
Just dreaming

Posted by biodrummindieseler on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 18:25
Unequal

Doug Murray is not the skater or player the other two are. He is a load, tough as nails but I don't think anyone would pay either other player for him. And he didn't win SJ anything by his play did he?

Posted by TheREALWiz on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 23:15
When contracts go bad!

ill bet when Isle GM Garth Snow signed DiPietro to a 15-year, $67.5-million contract he didnt think he would be looking for an emergency goalie (Rolsson) after another injury prone season.

This is what scares me about long contracts and it was given to a young player to boot. Whether its Hossa ,Pronger or Frazen and maybe Toews/Keith or Kane this makes the whole idea unsettling.

There is a story on this

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/2010wintergames/play+with+math+beat+...

Posted by boldirev on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 09:29
so Campbell for Doug Murray?

This is one tough guy (Swedish/Scottish)..but dont you think we could get him for lesser players if he were on our radar? (i know we are talking salary cap issues here)

plus the Sharks have many FA`s to sign this year and their cap doesnt appear now to be able to handle the 5 mill difference!

Ive always liked Doug Murray..no one wants to drop the gloves with him twice!!!

Posted by boldirev on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 05:23
Tallon is right

They didn't overpay. They paid pretty much exactly what they would have anyway. Barker and Versteeg would have been at least 2.5 or more before the mistake. The team is ready, lets start the season!!!!

Posted by CanadianHawksFan on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 17:19
Wiz you are the susan boyle

Wiz you are the susan boyle of hockey scouts.
You always hit the high notes.
I just got back from japan and it seems the hawks are favored to win the cup.
At least in toyko they are.
Don't let these bloggers get on your nerves.
Your the best please call me again.
I got something I'd like to share with you.

Posted by Sonnio on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 16:20
Susan Boyle

is better looking than Wiz. But Wiz knows more about hockey. ;)

Posted by jacukel on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 06:25
boynton

Heard someone mention him on the blog earlier as a possible fit as a physical dman.

ANAHEIM, Calif. -- The Anaheim Ducks signed free agent defenceman Nick Boynton to a one-year, US$1.5-million contract on Thursday.

The 30-year-old played in 68 games with the Florida Panthers last season, scoring five goals with 16 assists and 91 penalty minutes.

"Nick is the type of veteran defenceman we were hoping to add to our lineup," Ducks GM Bob Murray said in a statement. "He's played over 500 NHL games and brings a physical presence to our team."

The six-foot-two, 220-pound native of Nobleton, Ont., has 32 goals and 96 assists in 505 career NHL games with Boston, Phoenix and Florida

pretty cheap!

Posted by Pat Stapleton on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 15:41
I think its hilarious..

We have 3 former Hawk DMan GMs in the same conference (three of my fav hawks)...add Darryl Sutter and we have 4 former hawks. What is Ivan B doing now?

Your right Pat, nice cheap all around defenceman.

Posted by boldirev on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 05:41
Prospects Camp Today

Did anyone go to the prospects camp today? A run down of anyone who stood out would be great.

Thanks!

Posted by mitzua17 on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 15:26
BAR

Sounds like a good time. Maybe Jacukel could drag Tim down from the press box. Sports Guy could probably try as well.

Posted by 6628 on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 15:12
Rain You are right about a

Rain
You are right about a forum like this. First, it's great to just blow off some steam. And it is fun. And it would be a hoot to get all the posters in the same room at the same time. I said in a post last season that if all these guys (or women?) were in the bar at the hawks game, the fights in the bar would be better than any on the ice. And I'm only 1/2 kidding.

But the main thing is that everyone sees the game a little different. If they played the game, they see it from a different perspective depending what position they played. People who never have played usually only see the obvious. Where they view the game from matters as to what they see. But everyone has a good idea from time to time. I can throw down with virtually anyone when it comes to experiences in the UC and the Stadium, but I can usually learn something from a first timer because that first timer will observe something I never thought to. Bottom line is that the people that take time to post are hawk fans that care greatly and have had a lot of frustration the last decade or so. And I love it when someone just blows a gasket and goes off. We are never all going to agree, but it sure is fun to talk about. Maybe next year everyone can show up at Buffalo Wild Wings and abuse the ice girls when they make a road game appearance.

Posted by 6628 on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 14:09
All about it

Meeting up. I've met HP and Sportsguy before. I usually sit in the budlight bar before games. I try to get there right when the gates open, because sitting on the eisenhower pisses me off more then anything that anyone could post on this blog.

Agree with your analysis about posts. All of us blow our lids depending upon how much we care about a situation. Plus it keeps me from getting stared down from wife, when I start losing it.

I will say that I am very worried about goaltending. I really hope Huet lives up to his contract, and steps up. A lot of guys have faith in him, but as of now, he is the wink link on this team.

Posted by Steve Rain on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 15:10
Bar

Im all for a bar meeting for Hockey discussion. Would be nice to have Sassone there as well as he is THE only Hockey writer in Chicago that is well respected!

Maybe invite the guys from the old "Blue Line" as well!!!!

Opening night at the microbrewery at the UC...how bout it? Who's in?

Posted by second balcony on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 14:35
Trades?

Now that some of us have had group therapy and cleared the air, can we talk about trades?

Again, thanks to those who attended the prospect camp and posted. I'm very excited for this upcoming season, and hope to make a lot of preseason games to watch some of these young kids play against NHL caliber talent. That way when injuries happen, I won't be holding my breath when somebody gets called up.

HP--Great post about Vanek and Kane. I love Kane, but it sounds like he's in love with himself....a lot. I think most of us can agree that of the big 3, kane ranks last in importance for the Hawks to sign. That's not a shot at the kid, but he's got to mature. I'd hate to lose him, but it'll be interesting to keep an eye on the negiotations with him.

Jackuel--Love your blog on the other site. Not a shot at Al, but you have done a far better job and I dont' dred the money I spent to get access to the charts, etc. For my own sanity, I'm not going to get too excited about anything Elk says, until it's at least an E4. Everything else is all over the board.

I am at most games throughout the year. Would love meet and talk hockey with anyone here. These posts are hard to gauge at times, because we keep them short, but most everyone is an agreement with one another. I'm pretty confident those of us who barter, would end up in agreement on a lot of things in person.

In my opinion, I can see the Hawks standing pat. They don't have to be under the cap until opening day, and there are always injuries in training camp etc. Plus Tallon can evaluate some of these kids who may be ready to take the next step in the preseason. I understand to keep the core together some of the guys I have grown to like are expendable like Sharp, Brouwer, Versteeg, Buff, Barker, etc.

Posted by Steve Rain on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 11:17
kane vs Vanek.

Ok tell me your reasoning for liking this ...vanek has a 7.1 hit for 5 years , too make it worth are while we would have to give up a lot in salary back.

Kane is only 3.7 (for agruments sake) this year
what else are you proposing?

Besides Kane , immaturity? Dont measure him with Toews as he is on whole other plane (not that you were)...Kane is 20 and happy go lucky,,but he has played hockey 11 months out of the year for most of his young life , travel, living at the Gagners house etc. This kid is a responsible young man and has his family with him where ever he goes. Dave Gagner has nothing but glowing things to say about him and his son with regards to character.

I agree he is #3 on the priority list but im sorry guys ..i think he is untouchable especially when you start adding the big kids in Beach/Aliu that he will play with. He will have more room on the ice with these guys.

Posted by boldirev on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 11:38
RE

I don't discount what you are saying, but it sounds more and more that Kane is treading on some thin ice. I don't think it's sealed, but I think he has to start stepping up in some areas.

I'm not saying you trade him today, but I hope he turns in a monster year next year. He stepped up big in the playoffs, when I was sure he would be plastered all over the place. Maybe playing with some bigger guys would help, but I have always seen him as an Adam Oates type of a player. More of a set up guy then a scorer. That's why I think a guy like Sharp or hossa would flourish playing with him. He has unreal vision that is a treat to watch live, and those guys can find the open space and just let shots rip.

As the broken record that I am, my biggest beef with Kane is his backchecking. That play against Samuelsson in game 2 still fires me up. He loafed back, and brouwer (who was even lower in the zone) beat him back. Until Kane buys into defense, I would argue he should be benched with under 5-10 minutes to go in 1 goal games.

For the record, I think Toews is going to have a monster year. I wouldn't be shocked to see him put in 40. I think he realized that he can score at will in front of the net, and with his soft hands/skill, it's only going to get better. Just wait until this kid fills out. He's going to be a beast.

Posted by Steve Rain on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 15:42
True about Kane!

I would just hate to see him flourish elsewhere. RE: Oates ..we need a play maker and if "Savy" isnt reincarnated he maybe our best option although Kane has a much better nose for the net than Oates.

How did you pick Oates to compare Kane with? what do you see in their games that are similar?

Posted by boldirev on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 05:49
Who will we lose?

One of the guys at work here thinks we will lose Sharp, Versteeg or Stewie (Barker) because of the cap. If this is true I hope it's Stewie. Last I heard we have some pretty good talent on D at Rockford but no better than third liners on offense. If we lose Sharp or Versteeg I think we lose that three line scoring threat that made it hard to match lines against us last year.

Posted by f2210 on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 08:58
Sharpie

Mark my words on this date! I really hate to see him go because I like him but Sharp is the one on the way out.

You all watch and see! GUARANTEE'D

Just hope we get what we need for him, or a package including him(Solid D and some cap space)

Posted by second balcony on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 10:23
Is that info. or just your logic?

If you have info. on a pending Sharp deal, I'd love to hear it.

Otherwise, I would take Sharp at his cap number ANY DAY over Versteeg at his.

Posted by jacukel on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 06:20
Sharp's Knee...

and it's durability moving forward would be my only hesitation in agreeing with you on this.

Posted by dwebert4 on Fri, 07/10/2009 - 20:16
Sharp

I agree as i speculated on that before..his 3.9 salary hit and our depth makes him a great candidate. He is a 25-30 goal scorer average..we can replace that!

But will some team like him at his salary is the question?

Posted by boldirev on Thu, 07/09/2009 - 10:33