Report: Tallon out, Bowman in
Posted by TimS on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 00:46
Comcast SportsNet's Josh Mora reported late Monday night the Blackhawks have fired Dale Tallon as general manager and will name Stan Bowman his replacement on Tuesday.
Shocked? Yes and no.
Tallon didn't help himself with the mistake prior to July 1 when he was late to qualify his restricted free agents. The goof cost the team money in re-signing Kris Versteeg and Cam Barker.
I thought Tallon had built up enough good will to survive, but it was no secret that neither chairman Rocky Wirtz nor president John McDonough considered him "their" guy.
Can Stan Bowman do the job? We'll see. Guess we now know how much power dad Scotty really has with the team.
Smells of Scotty running the show? Heard that Dale took the fall for the younger Bowman on the offers not getting out. The club lost Rick Dudley this year who was an excellent evaluator - he must have known something? Scary to think Al Macissac has any influence on this?? I predict a fall coming, the team is not set up for the salary cap adjustment and having to sign Kane, Toews and Keith next year.
The future of the franchise is in the hands of a guy who has health challenges and his old man who is closer to 80 than 40. Nothing against the Bowman's but maybe the Hawks could have looked toward someone else like Rick Dudley who has actually played hockey. I wish Stan the very besy but I question if this makes sense for the long run of the organization.
UNLESS Rocky is doing all of this to package the team for a sale.
According to the team's website, Dale has not been fired, but rather reassinged to the postion of Senior Advisor Hockey Operations. Whatever that means.
Here is Dale's quote from the Hawk team site...
“In my new role as Senior Advisor, Hockey Operations I will continue in any way that will help make this a better product on the ice. I’ve seen Stan come up through our ranks and I’m confident he is the right person to step in. This is what is best for the Chicago Blackhawks.”
Great another Blackhawk hockey ambassador in waiting!
Im ecstatic as getting rid of Dale for his hard work , Loyalty and longevity ..would be WRONG!!!
Thank you
I was building towards a huge rant (for my own peace of mind) to direct at our new owner!
Afterall he said "In my new role, I look forward to working with General Manager Dale Tallon and Head Coach Denis Savard,” he continued. “I feel the team is in good hands under Dale’s guidance and leadership. We are all focused on putting a winning team on the ice and winning the Stanley Cup.”
If....he had gotten rid of Dale Tallon, I think a lot of fans would have eventually turned on him. He did say he wanted to win a cup for the loyal fans..this was a huge step in goodwill as was and compared to bringing back Denis Savard, Bobby Hull Tony O and Stan Mikita. 30 plus years is a long time and he earned the right to see this through!!!!
PS where is Ivan Boldirev??? half kidding
This is an excerpt from the hockey news which helped form an opinion about him in his early days with the wings as a coach! as told by Shawn Burr....
"Scotty Bowman may have 1,000 wins, but the Red Wings coach has made plenty of enemies along the way. This from Lightning forward Shawn Burr, who recalled a time when with Detroit he was called into Bowman's office and asked for his opinion: "You're 60 years old, you play with toy trains and you use duck calls to make line changes," said Burr. "I think you're a retard. There's something wrong with you; you're a joke." .
That was it for Burr , he was demoted and later traded...just thought id share a moment that cracks me up everytime i think or see scotty...
Originally from the Hockey News!!
But Shawn(i hide behind my face shield)Burr was a favourite of Jaques Demers and was really sickning to watch,(think of Kirk Matlby 3 times more gutless)
Although Roger Nielson (RIP) was the father of Video analysis...this gives you an idea how devious Scotty Bowman is...
From the Washington post
When it comes to hockey, the man whose physical profile resembles Alfred Hitchcock's is as familiar with all the angles as the great director, pushing just the right buttons at just the right time. He has been known to trash his own players in front of their teammates or scratch stars from the lineup with no explanation. He was one of the first NHL coaches to use videotape, and in one series he showed a bunch of tapes to the media, pointing out the way his team had been the victims of poor officiating in a loss. Just as Bowman had intended, the referee became the story, while his team's performance was never really discussed.
for the other tales just as interesting....http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/capitals/longterm/1998/stanleycup/articles/bowman15.htm
He's a better scout than a GM, IMO. And he belongs with the Hawks. Could ALSO be just a means of justifying his salary/parachute til he lands another gig. I hope it's the former.
...back in the TV booth with Pat? Right after Eddie-O completes his suck-up to a national network, Dale can jump back in there with Pat.
It's amazing how Rocky and Co can fire people and they remain in the Blackhawk family.
I guess this means that Toews or Keith are the ones that are gonna get left out. No way Kane is expendable now. You don't trade your roomate do you?
I think this is simply a case of Tallon being hired by a different regime. He wasn't perfect as a GM but he also made some great moves to improve us. Trade for Sharp was a steal, trade for Versteeg was a steal, trade for Havlat was a steal, and his drafting wasn't too bad either (Keith and Bolland 2nd round picks). He might have been too friendly with the players and that might have lead him to give out too many big contracts to players with only a year of experience.
Now the promotion of Stan Bowman is somewhat of a surprise. We fired Savard because we needed someone with experience to lead our team to a Cup. So now we have Stan who has very little experience as a GM. Scotty never had to deal with a salary cap so while he was a great coach I'm not sure how he is going to be a big help to Stan. Stan and McD were both around for all the contracts that were signed (except Sopel for McD). They had to give their signoff on them. I worry that McD is too involved in the hockey operations. He isn't a hockey guy and should stay to the marketing. What knowledge could he give?
I hope it works out for the best but unfortunately I can see some possibly speed bumps ahead.
Stan is GM in name only. My take on it is it's almost GM by committee. MacIsaac and Scotty have a lot to do with what will happen.
JohnnyM is not in the middle of operations IMO. He has visibility to a lot of stuff but he's not getting in the discussions on actual personnel.
Great guy, overall did a good job....more good moves than bad ones.
Let's hope this works out with Scotty and Son. McEgo has his guys in place so it's all on him now. Maybe now he'll keep his mug in his office rather than grabbing all the glory while doing his fake humble guy routine.
My 2 cents - Since Rocky took over - the bar has been raised for the organization. The moves that have been made are all focused on creating a stanley cup winning organization. The moves with McD, Quinn, Sc. Bow.... are all moves to raise the bar. I believe Tallon didn't quite reach the bar and now this move. I also suspect this is a team GM position with Stan and Scotty. Scotty will groom Stan until he stands above the bar on his own.
This should be the last piece of the puzzle from a management perspective.
Scotty will be the defacto GM with his son the understudy until he is comfortable enough to take control on his own.
I don't think Scotty thought much of Tallon as a GM (just like he didn't think much of Savard as coach). He pulled the right strings to bring in Q, but Q brought a lot of knowledge & experience to the job, Stan doesn't & will be relying on Scotty for that.
I'll take Scotty as GM over Tallon any day.
Because this obviously will upset the players. The timing is just strange, and I faintly hear the echoes of Havlat's "loyalty" moaning . . .
Like people are saying, I'm not sure how Stan cures anything. No GM has a perfect record (check the Freep.com boards for commentary on the mighty Ken Holland) . . . very strange.
Good luck Stan, your gonna' need it, with daddy breathing down your neck, constantly whispering in your ear & Mc D shoving the stick deeper up your -
Your gonna' wish you were back being a bean counter!
Someone tell me what all does he bring to the table, is he qualified to GM a top team in the NHL?
Really I do wish him well because if he and his Dad do well, that means more deep runs and dare I say it - no, I won't be the jinx.
Good luck Stan, your gonna' need it, with daddy breathing down your neck, constantly whispering in your ear & Mc D shoving the stick deeper up your -
Your gonna' wish you were back being a bean counter!
Someone tell me what all does he bring to the table, is qualified to GM a top team in the NHL?
Really I do wish him well because if he and his Dad do well, that means more deep runs and dare I say it - no, I won't be the jinx.
Tallon got a raw deal here. He gets blamed for the huge contracts given to Campbell and Huet, but Stan Bowman was the contract guy. And if anyone else in the front office objected the deal wouldn't have been done. Granted Campbell is average at best defensively, but he gives you 50-60 points a year and QB's the power play. They needed another puck moving defenseman and they got one. Yes they overpaid but everyone seems to conveniently forget that no one wanted to come here. The hockey was so bad we had to overpay for Lapointe and Brown and various others. Bash Tallon all you want but those were the only free agents he could get to come here. Bad teams have to overpay to get players to come. And I think Lapointe was a pretty good leader for these young kids. Remember that Tallon through his drafting has built a strong team and made Chicago a destination that premier players like Hossa want to come to. Granted Toews and Kane were no brainers, but there is talent in our system Aliu, Beach, Lalonde, etc. He also made several great trades to get Sharp, Ladd, and Versteeg. Does anyone even remember what we gave up to get them? The players love him because he is straight forward and a genuine person. The qualifying offer mess was bad, but the Hawks didn't lose any players. Did we have to slightly overpay for Versteeg and Barker? Yes. But if they took it to arbitration they would have gotten similar money. $3 million is the going rate now for the numbers those 2 put up last year. They may have even gotten more if they pushed the issue and became free agents. But both chose to re-sign here and i think Tallon was a big part of that. Tallon took the blame for the QO's but that seems like something the contract guy would be in charge of...... but hey I guess it gets you promoted to GM right Stan?
...are giving Dale all of the credit for the good things, and trying to blame everyone but Tallon for the bad. You can't have it both ways.
...is tallon getting all the blame for the bad things and none of the credit for the good, which i've seen plenty of as well on these boards.
But I understand the move. I don't disagree or agree with it, I don't have all the facts.
I am disappointed that Dale won't have the chance to follow through on his desire to make the team competitive for years to come. I was real curious how he was going to handle the contract situations after next season. Oh well, GO HAWKS!!!
If you look at the sum of all the moves made while he was GM he was a pretty good GM. Look how quickly things turned around with him as the GM. Granted I agree he doesn't deserve all the credit. But he also doesn't deserve all the blame. I was merely pointing out that he has done far more positive things then negative during his tenure. My point was he is being blamed for all the bad things and shown the door....while other people played a part in those moves also.
but when you say other people played a part in the bad things, you must also concede that those same other people played some part in the good things too. The bad was not all on Dale, but neither was the good. That's all I'm saying.
The QO issue is just a touch of the bigger issue and that is cap management. The QO's were highly visible, will get all the attention and be discussed ad nauseam but it's not the REAL reason Dale was let go.
It's been said before, Dale found lot's of good players but he's too often spent too much on too many players. In a no-cap system or if the cap were something like $67M instead of $57M, I wouldn't take any issue with Dale's moves. But starting just over a year ago he signed 8 players that IMO, he paid too much for each player.
I know he had to make a splash just over a year ago, but Campbell was the wrong guy; at least at $7.1M a year CAP HIT for 8 years wrong. Signing Huet not knowing he could deal Khabby. That tied about 22% of the cap in the nets and cuffed them during 08-09. That was big. I'm not saying they HAD to deal Khabi but it had to be one OR the other going into 08-09, not both. Hind-sight is 20/20, so a year ago no one could say 100% "no" to Huet and 100% "yes" to Khabi.
Then there was the Sharp, Buff & Sopel signings last year followed by this years' signings of Bolland, Barker and Versteeg. If this "completed" the team, I would be OK being so close to the cap. But it doesn't complete the team and here in lies the issue.
And please note this. The underlying economic issue will be huge. There's gonna be a LOT of teams looking to move salary during the 09-10 season. That will make it a buyers market. The VERY few teams with cap space AND the chance to ADD payroll will benefit the greatest. Right now the 'Hawks do not fit that criteria because they're at or just over the cap. I fear the 10-11 cap can fall to as far as $53M.
Dale did a great job in the UFA market on the offencive side. I wish they did the Campbell deal like they did Hossa's. I mean if they're gonna pay a guy around $60M in the cap era, do it right. Hossa is getting $7.9M a year for the first 7 years but the cap hit is nearly $2.7M less a season.
I would have loved to see a Beauchemin signing with the money they saved by NOT signing Barker and Aaron Johnson. Or not even sign more UFA's but leave more cap space (by not signing so many RFA's) so trades can be easier. Looking at the rosters, The Leafs look to be an EXCELLENT trade partner this summer.
Good luck Dale. I know you tried and tried hard. You made a few mistakes but they were biggies. You'll always be welcomed in the Blackhawk family. Who knows, maybe not too long from now you will be back in the TV booth with Pat Foley.
I wish people would stop thinking the leafs would be a great trade partner for the hawks. They have absolutely no one that Burke is interested in trading which will fill the needs of the hawks. The tough , physical defensemen on the leafs were just traded for by Burke to improve his team. The leafs have no top six forwards at all. They would love to get some of the Hawks young talented forwards but all they have to offer is draft picks. Not sure if Burke would trade those though.
it will be to try to unload bigger contracts for prospects & picks - they are going to have to dump salary just like they did with lang & tried to do with khabi last season, only this time it won't be a 35 year old guy - it will be someone like versteeg or barker or byfuglien or a combination of them - their only hope is to try to package two or three of them for one good player with a cheap contract, but other teams, being able to figure the cap mess the hawks are in aren't going to be inclined to give up good (& cheap) players to help out the hawks...
hossa's contract on top of campbell & huet's, is going to be an albatross around the young hawks necks for years.
bowmans have their job cut out for them - blaming Tallon will only buy so much time.
of both teams then comment. So what you're saying is no way the Leafs could be interested in:
Sharp
Versteeg
Bolland
Likewise, the 'Hawks would have no interest in:
Kaberle
Van Ryan
Finger
In essence you know this won't happen, right?
The Leafs defencive acquisitions made other guys "available". Even a recent acquistion can be had for the right price though that's less likely.
Younger offencive players locked up for a few years may be desirable by the Leafs.
Good luck with that!!!Aint gonna happen he's as untouchable as Toews.
Jeff Finger 3.5 mill is well paid and Van Ryn 3.35 mill is our answer to Sopel!!!! *PASS*
If Bolland goes than we are back to looking for a 2nd line centre (madden/Kropecky are 3rd line exclusively).
and yes (sarcasm) we are in the market for adding more salary!
Kaberle is nice but other than that..what is your reasoning for us getting ripped off??
EXcellent!!!!
If you read my post I didn't say the leafs would not be interested in our forwards! They would love to have them because right now they have no top six forwards.
As for the Dmen you mentioned I watched those guys all year as I live in Toronto. Van Ryn is a decent player but if you think Havlat is hurt a lot then you won't be happy with Van Ryn!
Tell me where Finger would be an upgrade to what we have now?
I have no problem with Kaberle he is a good player however he isn't the physical d man that hawk mgmt claim they are looking for. Plus he is making 4.25Million, who do you move to make room for that? Yes his contract is up in a couple of years and is not a bad cap hit for someone of his skill set. I just don't know where he fits after signing barker.
That's all I'm saying!!
I'd rather have Kaberle than Barker. And if it meant they had to, buyout Sopel to balance the money.
The biggest issue on defence in the conf finals was lack of mobility. I won't sweat losing Walker on that front. But he wasn't a big dollar loss so more money had to be freed up. They could have done that by not re-signing Barker at the money they did. Now they have the same defence and no money to maneauver.
Finger is an upgrade over either/both Sopel/Johnson. Again, without the cap freedom to maneauver, they have to do other things.
I shutter to think Rocky will just sign-off buyouts. They'd save $1.75M this season and $1.25M next season buying out Sopel, but cost them $750k each of the 2 following seasons. So that'll take just over $3M over 4 years to pay him to not play. They're just getting out from under Curtis Brown's buyout and that'll cost them nearly $500k this season not to play.
Hey i like Kaberle too but just because we looked slow vs Detroit doesnt mean we have to make that our focus when it comes to improving next year. (we were worn out)
They have lost players (speed) and we have players that will improve that includes the defence through experience.
I guess we will wait and see as a trade must be coming.
I'll give you some of the D-men will improve via experience.
They had better not be any more worn out than any other team. They need 7 more [playoff] wins next spring! That's almost double from this spring.
Experience will help the defence, no doubt. But it won't make 'em faster. I like Barker on the PP. Even strength, God forbid a 4-on-4; him getting caught out there yikes!
The way the Wings have lost players makes me believe the 'Hawks could have the edge now, but let's not stop there. I still want to see the defence get bigger, faster and meaner. But the cap is a touchy thing now.
We are built on this premise...I just wanna say Barker is an above average skater for a defenceman, he certainly is not slow but compared to Keith and campbell he is. Everybody wants to find a fall guy as in with the Dale Tallon thing...but i believe (my own opinion) Daddio that we are just lacking experience.
but it is just my opinion
into the playoffs with this defencive group? I'm not too sure. The regular season I'm not worried. Obviously that's where they're going to learn to jell more, especially Hjalmarsson and Johnson since neither had close to a full 08-09 season.
Yeah, a lot can happen. I guess I didn't want to count on trying to get someone at the deadline, then it not happen.
with you Pat...but i feel slightly blindsided and am not sure what the Bowman`s (as i will refer to them now) are up to.
Maybe there pissed Dale didnt go after pronger or dinner at dales house was overcooked who knows..Scotty has always been a free spirit (but he is a winner)
let the speculation begin on the hawks next move!!!!
he only got the job because he was already on the payroll as a tv annnouncer & had done some so called scouting.
and he got way too much credit for improving the team thru the draft - armchair GMs couldn't screw up top 1st & 3rd overall picks & they could also throw huge money at guys like khabi, aucoin, lapointe, lang, huet, campbell & now hossa which has totally screwed up their cap & truly hurt their prospects of signing the big 3...
the qualifying offer fiasco might have been the last straw, but the campbell & hossa contracts the hawks signed are an albatross & will continue to be for years...
i don't know if stan bowman is the answer - i think there are better candidates & he has to take some responsbility as the hawks "cap" guy under Tallon for the monstrous contracts handed out, but i'll certainly take him over Tallon, knowing Scotty is going to have a bigger influence.
hey BigPete - you claim to have known what was going on internally with the hawks management - this must come as a total shock to you! LMFAO
The only shock today is that Chicohawk didn't get the GM job. I mean, c'mon, we've seen the acumen that he shares here on the Daily Herald on a regular basis. No one can go on ad nauseam about how much he knows more than Chico.
Chico cites the bad decisions that Tallon made, but acknowledges none of the good ones. Hossa as an "albatross"? Not the way the contract is structured. Besides, you can bet that everyone in the organization signed off on that one, including Bowman 1 and 2 and Johnny Mac.
Stan is both the cap guy and the contract guy, and there are some rumors that even McDonough had a role in holding up the QO's, yet Tallon has stood up and fallen on that sword.
As far as taking Scotty's influence, his talent as a GM was not that outstanding.
Chicohawk will take Stan, despite the fact that Stanley was overseeing computer programs and counting money for the Wirtz family just five years ago.
Very good points Chico. I'll only disagree on one player; LaPointe. I liked that guy, even when he was with the dreaded Wings. If it's true he nearly knocked Havlat's head off in a locker-room scuffle during 07-08, he's my kind of player.
Hossa's deal is way better than Campbell's BTW. After 8 years, they're only on the hook for less then $4M for 4 years. If he retires (I know, big IF), they still pay him but it doesn't count against the cap. They actually managed the cap better than Campbell. But Campbell's deal....yikes! $7.1M a year hit for 8 years. Almost un-trade-able. Campbell will be 37 at the end of his deal and it'll still cost them $7.1M for year 8.
Here's to hoping Rocky and JohnnyM know exactly what they're doing. This is Scotty's show IMO, now. He's behind the scenes but pulling the strings; not to mix metaphors.
Nothing Dale could have done would have saved his job in the long run. He simply wasn't Rocky and McD'S guy and it was inevitable that he would be launched like Savard was. The Hawks are a business again and like any other business the guys at the top want all their own people in the most important positions. The only surprise to me is that this would happen a couple of days before the convention as now it will be a hot topic at any Q&A session. But it is very apparent that Scotty is King, at least of hockey operations.
The one end result of this move that is different from the Savard firing is that the guy coming in has no experience. At least that is the portrait that has been painted. But if anyone thinks that Stan Bowman didn't sign off on every move going back to the Campbell signing they're kidding themselves. SOMEBODY besides or in addition to Dale approved every move made or not made this past year or so. Those very quiet gentlemen will no longer have DT to be their spokesperson. Time will tell if the accountant learned what he needs to know to expand into hockey operations.
Lastly, I wish DT nothing but the best. His mistakes were far fewer than his golden moves which is the only way that this massive on ice turnaround could have occurred in such a short time. Think back to what this team was when he came on board as GM and compare it to what it is now and there is no way it can be denied that he did a top notch job with what probably seemed at the beginning to be an almost impossible position to succeed in.
John McDonough does not suffer fools - or mistakes - gladly. He gets hired, the hierarchy gets revamped with the exception of the GM spot. So it was probably a matter of time before the Bowman Bookends squeezed Dale out.
He did a tremendous job acquiring young talent, but he just was not good with the numbers. Signing a big money goalie before your current big money goalie's contract is sold, screwing up the qualifying offers and costing the team cap space and money, bidding against himself for Havlat and Campbell.....that's what McD left behind with the Cubs, that's not what he's going to accept with the Blackhawks.
Maybe after the smoke clears Tallon is reunited with Pat Foley. I wasn't happy with Edso's perfomance this year. It seemed like he was auditioning for another coaching gig anyway.
for Dale. Nobody likes to get fired. We can speculate that he was sabotaged with the QO fiasco. when we settle on that, we could move on to Michael Jackson - murdered, suicide or just a bad batch of drugs / accident...point is we will not really know.
Seriously, I think it is more than this QO business. There is the part about goalies, and....I'm really struggling with naming other things. Maybe he didn't get along with others in the office. The true test will be how fast he finds another job in the NHL if the hawks don't "reassign" him.
While I rarely, if ever, put stock in "Eklund," his post is interesting. It seems also that he beat every media outlet to this story (although I am not sure now if Comcast got it first - regardless, interesting defense of Tallon).
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/MAJOR-SHAKE-UP-IN-CHICAGO-TALLON-O...
I know he had it by 9:20 Chicago time. Can't say how I know, but I know.
The most important thing i took from his article is that he built a steady stream of young talent and will be hired soon by a team wanting that type of success.
We will never know for sure what happened in a league guarded in secrecy but we will sure have a million view points in the comings days.
too many high and lows for me these days in being a hawks fan!
PS Maybe Rick Dudley knew something
And he got out while the getting was good. I actually don't think this is necessarily a bad move. i feel bad for Dale because he is a good human being. And he worked hard to build this team. That said, i think he, like Dudley is a Builder and not a manager. And i think they need a manager now.