Havlat rips McDonough
Former Hawk Marty Havlat continues to talk more than he ever did in Chicago, this time ripping team president John McDonough to TSN.ca
"My negotiation with Chicago was not between Dale and my agent, it was between Dale and McDonough," Havlat said "Why? Because McDonough couldn't stand that Dale was so successful and getting the credit for building the Hawks from a last place team to making the Conference Final in three short years. Remember, we were also the youngest team in the NHL last year.
"I was too closely identified with Dale. McDonough knew long ago he was going to fire Dale. He wanted someone he could claim as his own He wanted to stand up at the convention and claim credit for signing this guy or that guy."
McDonough denied on Tuesday he wanted to sign Marian Hossa as a free agent rather than commit to Havlat.
"Dale and I were very close and I stand for loyalty," Havlat said. "The players loved Dale and
they are with him. Every single player on that team is with Dale. I still talk to the guys all the time, hockey players know a phony when they see one.
"I was part of a very special team but that team doesn't exist anymore. I am really disappointed that Rocky Wirtz would let something like this happen."
Who knows what really happened in the front office and who was responsible for the RFA mess and Havlat. Everyone has a different story. The one thing that still has me worried - McDonough might be the force behind the Campbell and Huet signings and contracts. That is not good. As those two contracts will hurt us most for the next few years. It killed us last year. Great link by boldirev.
It still will be a great year to watch Blackhawk's hockey - the playoffs should be very interesting.
I am not worried about the cap - lets make a deal at the trade deadline or worry about it next year.
What is still a little scary - the hawks don't have a plan concerning how to handle the salary cap or what will they do one year out. This year's signings were evidence of that. And how is Stan Bowman the answer - this guy handled the cap this year. Or did Tallon not work with Bowman? I don't understand that. Not sure who or what to believe.
I vote for Keith.
Keith: Great skating defenseman who can add a little offense.
Kane: Great hands; plays absolutley no defense. Lost all respect for him when he stopped skating after Campbell turned the puck over to Samuelsson in OT.
My bet is they choose Kane. McEgo's Cubs always kept Sammy arouund. Loves having a poster boy.
I think McDonough has just presented a clinic on how to be an executive in Professional Sports.
1) Make decisions that are results oriented, not to give everyone warm fuzzies (see Denis Savard).
2) Leave those who are negatively impacted by your decisions better off than they were prior to the decision. (see Dale Tallon getting paid to do what he loves for the next 3 years ... play golf, and scout new talent).
3) Respond to criticism with class and dignity. (See his remarks to the Score 670)
4) Offer a kind word about those who would take you down a peg. (See his remarks on Havlat as a classy individual).
I think John McDonough is a blessing to this organization and I have no fear that this incident will be the second of three difficult decisions made to navigate to a Stanley Cup Champion team (#1 Savard, #2 Tallon, #3 Sophie's choice - Kane or Keith). The sooner the third decision is made, the quicker the path to the cup.
Stu Hackel of the New York Times has a lengthy but informative take on the Hawks...well woth reading
http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/the-morning-skate-chicagos-...
One thing that really 'teed me off' was Rocky Wirtz' quote about age as a contributing factor in reassigning 59-year old Dale Tallon's.(If there is one 'useful' piece of advice Rocky should remember to use from his father, Bill is (paraphrase) " You can't get yourself in trouble by listening.")
And, one team not concerned with age is the New Jersey Devils as they recently re-hired 63-year old Jacques Lemaire to be their head coach.
Lemaire's all-time coaching record: 1131 games, 540 (Wins) 414 (Loses) 124 (Ties) 53 (OTL)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Lemaire )
Lemaire led the Devils to their first Stanley Cup in 1995. And, one of three Stanley Cups the Devils have won since the 1994-95 season (2000 under Larry Robinson and 2003 under Pat Burns).
From 1994-95, the Devils have won:
(3) Stanley Cups to the Hawks none
(4) Conference Championships to the Hawks (1)
(7) Division Championships to the Hawks none
(12) Playoff Appearances to the Hawks (4)
The Blackhawks experienced a resurgence in play the last two seasons, but, before they start thinking their among the 'elite' teams they should put together a better run, especially now with the salary cap.
BTW: Besides, winning Stanley Cups with the Devils as their head coach, Lemaire and Robinson both played on multiple Stanley Cup Championships in Montreal under Scottie Bowman (Hawks new GM Stan's papa). Also, Robinson and Burns are currently special assignmnet coaches for the Devils
I was intially upset hearing Tallon was fired,but it doesn't really sound like things are going to that much different.Tallon will still be scouting(he's done a great job)and both Bowman's will be involved in personnel decisions along with Dale.Dale was possibly guilty of falling in love with his picks and Stan is twenty years younger so this totally makes sense,real good move.Hossa for Havlat is easily a win!!!
I think Dale got a raw deal but he has made some "headlining" blunders lately and to a marketing PR guy that cuts like a knife.
However, Havlat has to be a realist, Hossa is twice the player he is and doesn't get hurt.
Just.Win.The.Cup.Before.I.Die!
I think that there's enough muck to go around! Nobody's really in a position to say anything that will be considered "right".
Tallon signed this guy and that guy, Marty wanted to play here, but only played one full season, and McD is pretty much the new sheriff who has the Mayors ear.
If Marty would have had a bit better luck, if Scotty was never brought into the Organization, if if if if if....
Basically, it's hard to be a fan of a Team and Players that you love, because, after all, it's still a business.
I myself, after many days of deliberation, feel that the Hawks are still in the Best hands they can be in with Scotty Bowman as the lead hockey guy. So what if his son takes over as the GM, it's still Scotty Bowman as the LEAD MAN when it comes to hockey decisions.
Stan would be a fool not to use him in his decision making efforts.
I love Marty, REALLY! But, Hossa does have the better stats and health track record, and he's been to the Finals the past two years. Even though he's lost, he has valuable experience! I mean come on, the guys got to be chomping at the bit to actually win a Cup by now!
Basically, to sum it up, I believe in Scotty Bowmen more than Dale Tallon and I believe in Hossa more than the more raw talented, but often injured Havlat, and even though I like Marty and Dale, I believe that the Hawks are closer to winning the Stanley Cup now than they were a couple weeks ago, and after all, as a Life Long Hawks Fan, that is the Most Important Thing!
Either that or Havlat's just a tool. Of course he's complaining. He's not dumb. He knows he'd have much more fun and a better chance at winning if he were still in Chicago. Unfortunately when you're more fragile than fine crystal, and only decide to play hard during contract years, you're probably not going to get that big money, long term extension from the team you've been stealing from for the past few years. Maybe if he were half as loyal as he thinks he is, he would have realized that after missing most of the last 3 years with injuries that he owed the loyal Hawk fans as well as Dale a hometown discount, in which case he probably would have been signed to an extension before the season ended. This is nothing but sour grapes from a guy who wishes he were still wearing the Indian Head. You'd be pissed too if you were banished to Minnesota with no realistic hope of winning anything anytime soon. I'd say that I hope Havlat being on the Wild doesn't come back to haunt us, but I think it's safe to say that he will be injured far too often for that to be a major concern.
I suppose your "move on and upwards" nonsense chant has been temporarily postponed until you can relive the past when it suits you?
Havlat prob loved being here and was hurt by being rejected (a natural human emotion)so he said a few things he prob regrets....so in your infinite wisdom and your many years of NHL experience you feel the need to refer to him as a "Tool"
very classy!
You must give proper respect to the players/coaches/GM etc that earned it here...you cant tell me you didnt appreciate his play last year...but of course you blame him for the injuries!
I cant believe i wasted time reading your drivel..i assure you its the last!
Can't say I'll miss your responses to my "drivel".
"I suppose your "move on and upwards" nonsense chant has been temporarily postponed until you can relive the past when it suits you?"
I have no clue what this is supposed to mean.
"You must give proper respect..."
First, I don't have to do anything, especially not to please you.
Second, I did appreciate the way he played last year, it was just too little too late to warrant the kind of extension he wanted.
Third, I don't blame him for being injured, I just learned through my vast experience that he's likely to be injured again, soon.
Lastly, I really, and I do mean I really hope you wasted yet more of your precious time reading this drivel, because in case you can't tell, I do love to stir the pot!
When you start worrying about Havlat's human emotions it's time for a blog time out.
I think most informed Hawk fans knew Stan was going to become the GM.
Everyone here predicted Dale’s demise a year ago.
Hossa over Marty great move
Let the professionals worry about the cap.
This season will be entertaining.
See Ya! Marty
We have the best roster in the west!
I'm so depressed Scotty Bowman is running the Blackhawks!
I can't wait for this upcoming season
Pressure to win a cup is a bad thing?(In what hockey world)
I'll worry about the cap later.
Enjoy the now Hawk fans.
We'll survive without Dale.
Do you guys think McDonough expected this kind of backlash from the fans and the media about this. I heard a report saying that this move hasn't gone over well with some around the NHL not that it's any of their business. Are there other teams in the league that go through these dramas or is it just the Hawks?
from around the league & particularly in Toronto, the self-described capital of the hockey univers, because he is one of their "own", having been a broadcaster for longer than he's done anything else in his career.
not surprisingly, he's been very accommodating to the media with interviews, etc. over the years so when it appears that he gets canned for no good reason (without getting to deep into the details), it is too easy to make him appear a sympathetic figure.
I liken this to the savard firing - "controversial" decision that appeared heartless to the bleeding heart liberal fans, but not to those who really understand that to win you need to make cold, hard & perhaps unpopular decisions. The only concern I have is that while there are many GMs out there better than Tallon, Stan Bowman wouldn't be as high on that list as others.
His father got him the GM job & will help determine how successful he & the hawks will be in their quest for a cup & it won't take long to find out. they win it in a year or two, or the cap issues will cause the team to be dismantled partially at least.
I think it's done now just in case they win next year.. tough to fire Dale then... I don't remember anything like this on another team.
That's all I can say for Havlat. This was a pretty low thing to do. Some things are better off left unsaid.
I would never question John McDonough's skills as a marketing/PR guy. He creates interest, sells tickets, etc. Heck, he turned the Cubs into one of the most famous sports teams in the world. Unfortunately, it came at a cost. Winning. And I mean winning the World Series.
The Cubs became so wildly popular that it just didn't matter how their season ended. The sheep would waddle through the turnstiles for 81 games and any playoff contests. That created money, money and more money -- bankruptcy filing aside.
Now I fear the Hawks are beginning the journey down the same long road. Leading the NHL in attendance, the Winter Classic, fan convention, etc., etc. All good stuff, but will it lead to a Stanley Cup?
The four-ring circus that the Cubs became -- thanks to Mr. McDonough's skills -- got in the way of winning. Will the same thing happen to the Hawks? That is my fear.
Only one thing pulls this from the forefront.
That maybe the 2010 NHL Draft is in a city that has never hosted it...Chicago.
(Western Conference city gets it this time)
I am back in town!
Wiz
Or something you heard?
Since it is a rare day for a hockey player to badger his old team you'd have to think there is at least a little merit to what Havlat is saying. I also believe that he truly and badly wanted to stay with the Hawks and is still aggravated that he got shown the door. That's a good thing to see....most guys that left over the past 10-12 years couldn't pack their gear fast enough when asked to leave.
But what's done is done. We'll find out soon enough if an IT guy/Accountant has learned enough to be GM. Unlike Tallon who had a honeymoon period when he took over, Junior will have his feet to the fire from day one so it won't take long to figure out if he is the right guy for the job. If he isn't he'll be "reassigned" with Tallon in a year or two and we'll probably see an experienced GM brought in.
In the meantime look for the Hawks HR department to be drinking heavily at the convention this weekend. Their guy Rocky really put his skate in his mouth yesterday with the old age talk.
I will see RealWiz and likely steve rain at convention, maybe a couple others if they are going. I would like to know whom else is going, and if you would want to stop and say hello, even if just for a few minutes. I will be at the convention sat afternoon, probably not too early afternoon. I won't be looking to discuss right or wrong, just to say hello and how much I enjoy reading everyone who posts. I don't think anyone says things that I always agree with, but usually I agree with much of what everyone says. And even if I disagree, there is often something else a poster will say in a later post that is head on. Have to thank posters who do some research as well.
Stanley Cup poster will you be there? Chuck H you're tired of me asking if you're going to be around. Ok, I won't ask any longer.
We all might as well move on and we all likely expect to see a successful future for the Blackhawks. Not sure if we'll ever know all the answers about some of the topics and questions that have been raised. I do have some respect for Bowman's as a team, and I am unsure how much they will weigh the advice (or ask for it) from others in the organization. But I do think they will at least read scouting reports. Certainly it will be difficult for Bowman's to give as lucrative deals as Tallon handed out. But Bowman's aren't as likely to have anyone possibly prodding them to make such big money signing like Dale did...just our own guys, to a fair deal I'm hoping and guessing down the line. Wouldn't you agree Bowman's have an idea of how to build, and what guys they like/don't like? Interesting to see what happens...don't think we'll see all that they are thinking right away...Rome wasn't built in a day, although Tallon has made a good start in doing so.
As I said before, some players may or may not play themselves off the team. And other players may come along and push othrs out of a job. I'm not going to speculate as to whom, at least not now and probably not so much in the future. I think I'm wasting too much time posting, so I'll just sit back and enjoy all the good post that appear on this site.
saying Marty Halvat is ready to sign for 12 years front-loaded and stacked into retirement like Hossa's deal, then as his boss,
I also am telling Dale wait wait wait slow up...the guy had a superb year but one of three and who knows where that concussion/shoulder will lead?
Let's try for 5.5 one year deal or less...
Tallon might not like having to go back to Havlat with figures and years that he KNEW Halvat would be displeased with, and all Dale could honestly say is,
"This is coming from upstairs...they want this."
and not react to anything Marty said/says. Dale's overall record isn't all that good. He made some great moves but others were not. He is a smooth guy and has a lot of friends, so the firing looks bad. Like the Savvy firing, we were angry at the HoF PLAYER being tossed, not the COACH. The QO was an easy out for the front office.
We as fans owe it to the front office to let them doing what they have to do to make the team better. Just like Q was given a chance - at least I know I sure did - so too now must the front office.
It's on Stan and Scotty now. They have to improve their cap position starting this summer. I for one would sure like to see either a more complete team for the same money, or some money shed for even younger players that can go to Rockford.
Guess we'll all see what happens by the time camp opens.
move a 4 mil salary or even a little less, is so you can sign Toews to a similar 12 year deal now this summer since HE IS ABLE to restructure his contract and they would need that added space to his present salary + the raise.
(If you get a defenseman who makes 1.2 along the with the dump, whoop, but you can a gave up the best player in the trade, so you lose. (Exelby is not as good as everybody keeps giving him credit for, please take my word, OK?)
But this gloom and doom we're screwed attitude serves no purpose because teams with the surplus can get bigger names better players later in the year.
If Kane actually dedicates this season to full tilt play, and the rest of the line-up flies through the first four months winning scoring big, it won't take much to keep players and get good players as adds.
I go with I got unless Toew's agent is ready to restructure...
Oh and Marc Bergevin as Director of player personnel?
What will he do play practical jokes on them?
Is super scout Mark Kelley next to go?
plus a 12-year deal now would only put him at age 33 at the end??? That ain't happening, at least the way Hossa's deal is structured. Dale would have served himself well if he did Campbell's like he did Hossa's. Hossa is making $7.9M for 7 years but the cap hit is only about $5.2M.
The whole idea of teams able to get bigger names later in the year only works with fannies in the seats. If all of a sudden the economy turns around (yeah, right; remember this blog please when unemployment hits 12% during 1Q10) then teams will have money to spend on players. if not, then the market will be flooded with higher priced players - who's contract are still valid unless there's a CBA change - with no place to go. Obviously a change in the CBA or another amnesty/buyout like a couple years could change that.
The point is the 'Hawks have to move several million dollars of contracts to be in line to re-sign the big 3, even 2 of the 3. OK, I can see perhaps Kane not being re-signed. Regardless, the 'Hawks have to move salary any which way they can. The longer they take, the tougher it gets.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't like the roster they have right now. It's incrementally better than the conf finals team 8 weeks ago. But this is all about setting yourself up as an organization for a several year run and simply put, the 'Hawks have not YET done that. We'll see what's up the Bowman's sleeves the next several weeks now, won't we.
Where did you get this Exelby thing? For reference, I did see him play, with the Wolves in the AHL at AllState. He's an OK player and a decent puck mover. Mobility is OK and shot is good. I did like the way John Anderson played him in the lineup. On the other hand, I'm certainly not ready to call him the next Doug Wilson or Duncan Keith either.
That was the rumored deal with Toronto.
daddio, ahl, heap lower in quickness than NHL forward speed.
My reference to a 12 year Toews deal (ending at age 33) speaks to tying up a major player long term.
Let's be practical: Players the ilk of Hossa who are extremely well conditioned and skilled can go way past 33 , but there is wear and tear as a player gets into the second 600 NHL games played that accounts for their slow down.
I, like you, don't want to look past this run, but the kids need to be secured only while the window stays open ...where the farm fills and the core stays...and that is a max of eight years from now IF THAT.
Yup I said it we are going downhill before we climbed the mountain.
It is nice to think that Lil Scotty and Marc Bergevin (sp) can evaluate and find new kids and make nice new finds and trade vets two for one better player and continue the cycle making the club a perennial contender, but every dynasty dies before that and that was before the Cap.
The Cap will be changed though, mark my words.
I cant see this happening because the Laff's would have to pony up at least a 2nd rd and 3rd rd pick to even this out and Burke's ego wont allow this to happen
I have to agree with Grinder. All of this drama coming from the front office is going to make it difficult for this young team to stay loose. Yes, these players are millionaires who are paid to take the pressure, but I think most of us have had a job where we worked harder because we respected our boss. Do you think any of the Hawks respect McD after this?
As for Scotty Bowman, I wouldn't be surprised if he demanded Q's job if the Hawks are lower than the 4th seed come February. The good thing is we no longer have to guess who is calling the shots anymore, it's all on the Bowman's now.
BTW, it's amazing how much feedback is on TSN's site over all of this. Most of the guys are giving props to Havlat since they have no idea what he was like during his first two years in Chicago.
Easy to peg McD as the villian in this because Havlet is the only one talking. Seriously though, would people rather have Havlet or Hossa? For my money, I'd take Hossa all day, every day. Better scorer, better all around player, healthier than Havlet by a longshot.
It is way easy to scream at McD based on the timing of the firing, but can anyone agree with Tallon's decisions to sign Sopel, Byfuglien, or Veersteg to the contracts they got? That is over $8M in cap room to players that have no business equaling that cap number. Tallon paying Huet the money they paid him. Paying Campbell the money they paid him. I mean how does Campbell deserve a top 10 salary? It doesn't take a genius to see that Tallon couldn't get a better handle on the cap. The decision might not be popular, but it is hard to argue that it was the wrong one. At least hard to argue that from my perspective.
Bowman was the "cap guy" so how is the cap mess all Tallon's fault? I guarantee rocky and McD ok'd every one of the deals - and may have nixed the Havlat deal. There's a reason Dale is getting paid 2 more years - hush money.
We all knew this was coming, but it still reeks.
I didn't think Tallon was great but this kinda does not sit well with me. I hope I'm wrong but this doesn't smell good. Of course the players like Dale, he paid most of them more than they'd get elsewhere...but even so, I think we lost something with Mr Baseball thinking managing hockey teams is just like managing a baseball team... WRONG in a big way I am afraid.
McD. Won't last very long either.
>Wow -- it didn't take long to forget what a great season the Hawks just had
>Think this young bunch is up to the pressure of HAVING to win a Cup?
>My crystal ball says that unless Q, Torch, and Havi focus on keeping the team tight and have fun, the Hawks will struggle mightily this upcoming season
>Yearlong talk of the cap, who's staying, who's going will really drag this team down -- not to mention the goaltending
>I love that the Hawks are so focused on winning the Cup -- I just hope that the team chemistry every champion has is still there
Man, this whole thing is giving me a headache.
There's this gut feeling tho' that Havlat may be speaking some truth.
All I know is this....
When Denis Savard was fired, I knew it was the right thing to do because I just felt Denis wasn't going to be the coach to take the team to the next level. He was replaced with a coach with a pretty good resume.
But this firing or reassignment....I don't know. People can make the arguement with Dale Tallon on whether he deserved this or not. Thats not what concerns me. No, its his replacement. I'm not seeing that resume on Stan Bowman that gives me confidence. It feels more like whatever Scotty wants give it to him. And if Scotty is making a good chunk of the decisions with Stan....I'm still not convinced.
After all, last time I checked I didn't see any Stanley Cup Banners hanging from Buffalo's rafters.
They would have been better served just admitting that McD wanted his own guy. Instead they are blaming DT for all things and saying they wanted to get younger in the GM position. That DT couldn't handle negotiations and the Cap, even though Stan played a role in that and is now "the man". The more they talk the worse it gets.
Quick question - if someone signs Kane to a restricted offer sheet, what is the compensation? I figure it is going to be big $$ and last I checked, the $$ and age of the player (maybe) determine compensation. One would figure the hawks would be getting top compensation...is that 5 nbr 1's? Just curious.
where by the compensation in picks is determined by the salary. The higher the salary the offer sheet (and the orig team doesn't match obviously), the greater quality and quantity of picks. I can't find the link on that right now however.
The current expected RFA compensation table for 2008-09 is:
Amount
Compensation Due
$863,156 or less
None
$863,156 - $1,307,811
3rd round pick
$1,307,811 - $2,615,623
2nd round pick
$2,615,623 - $3,923,434
1st and 3rd round pick
$3,923,434 - $5,231,246
1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick
$5,231,246 - $6,539,061
Two 1st's, one 2nd, one 3rd round pick
$6,539,061 or more
Four 1st round picks
thanks. will be interesting to see if a team throws $6.5M at Kane (assuming he'll enter next summer as a RFA).
Toews is an excellent two-way player who's leadership and play cant be replaced,if some team throws huge money at Kane or Keith then all the draft picks might be an option(depending on how many)Toews and Kane are 6 million dollar players and Keith and Seabrook(down the road)are 5 million dollar players.
Havlat's comment about the players knowing a phony when they see one speaks volumes.
The fans are back because the team Dale put together wins and is entertaining. All the marketing fluff, Outdoor Classic, fan conventions etc. are fine, but the product on the ice is what this renaissance is all about.
Dale was not perfect, but as far as I am concerned McEgo the phony and his corporate doubletalk can go back to the Cubs and Tribune Company.
Who cares? A guy wanted to play here, found out that he was passed over for a guy who's 20 times the player he is and manages a full season every year, his buddy gets fired and now he hides in Minnesota behind Twitter and gasses on about it. Relax, worry about the cap after 2010 and how the Hawks will get better this season.
Hey Tim, you gotta be loving covering this team after so many years of moribund players and lack of interest.
... for a guy who played one full season with the Hawks. Everyone had the good graces to keep their mouths shut when Havlat was oft injured. I guess we should have all been yelling, "He's fragile!" instead of whispering it while he sat in the press box. It was an easy decision to let Marty go.
long term, publicly saying or implying at least that he wishes he was still in Chicago, which despite being in a different division is a hated rival to many of the folks in the land of a thousand lakes...
As for trying to pin McDonough as the bad guy & Tallon the good guy, as someone posted, it is quite conceivable that Tallon didn't want to appear as the bad guy to havlat & told his agent that mcdonough had tied his hands...
signing havlat long term would have been worse than what they did with hossa, tho hossa's signing isn't going to be the coup many think it was.
...and I'll guarantee, if the Hawks signed Havlet and then he went down for any length of time (highly likely), the fans would have been screaming how stupid the Hawks were.
Choosing Hosa over Havlet is a no-brainer when you use objectivity!!!
It seems we have a fly in the ointment! Like I said before - you can buy the story that management is selling (Tallon can't work within the new NHL / cap issues and only a bowman is able to do so...)
Or you could go with Marty's story which seems to make sense.
Many agree McD is lots of ego. But the real question is where will the team be in a year? If progress continues, we will forget about all of this. IF things go south, there is only one person, who by his own words is accountable, and therefore will be the next person "reassigned"
For some reason I want to side with Havlat on this one since he has nothing to gain by speaking up. I'm beginning to feel we have a new Bob Pulford to our new Mr. Wirtz.
just watching the press conf for bowman made me sick. Its all spin to to justify whatever their big vision is..which is unknown cuz scotty aint talking.
(Maciasac asst GM) hmm will he take over contract negotiations that was bowman`s job under Tallon?
did anyone ask what courier service they hired????
snail mail being used. In fact, in may have been in one of TimS's articles.