Hawks swap draft picks with Leafs
TSN.ca's Bob McKenzie reported the Blackhawks have traded a 2010 second-round draft pick that originally was Toronto's back to the Maple Leafs in exchange for a 2011 second-rounder (via Calgary) and a 2011 third-round pick.
There was no announcement from the Hawks as of Sunday morning.
The Maple Leafs now have back their own first-, second- and third-round picks for 2010, which the NHL requires in order for a team to submit an offer sheet for a restricted free agent.
McKenzie speculated the Maple Leafs now might be ready to put in an offer sheet for Boston Bruins RFA Phil Kessel.
As for the Hawks, rumors started Friday and into Saturday that they might be interested in trading for disgruntled Ottawa Senators winger Dany Heatley.
So far this is only a rumor, and it hasn't been reported anywhere. Funny, I sat near GM Stan Bowman at Friday's White Sox game and he was working his Blackberry most of the night. Maybe it was just typical GM stuff.
The Hawks couldn’t take on Heatley’s $7.5 million cap hit without moving close to that amount of money back to the Senators.
Everyone has to wonder and second guess Bowman if he trades for Heatley. Winning at all cost this year, before some major contract signs is one things, but it is an altogether farce if he thinks he can sign Heatley and trade away some salary cap players and be a better team. Part of being a strong team is our depth, lines one-four. OK, Frasser/Burrish is more about character than skill for line four. But is Heatley going to be a distraction and provide more help than the total package dealt away? We may be putting the cart before the horse, because all we have to go on is that Sc Bowman was yelling at Tallon in the press box during a game in the playoffs last year. There is a problem with Kane's maturation but maybe that will play out ok if he stays here. Maybe Bowman wants a partner for Campbell, or maybe he wants to trade him. That would make future salary negotiations next year much easier. With Madden aboard, hard to see Marleau also coming..but maybe...except Marleau isn't the sort of center that would help this team. He's on the downside of a career and I'd rather move someone and get something other than Marleau. I hope Bowman just values an extra pick insofar as the first trade he made. I don't know how else to rationalize that deal -- maybe he thinks with the extra pick he can unearth a secret gem -- like with the swedish pick from '09 draft.
Well lots to be worried about: 1). Stupid to go oversea for first NHL games for reasons stated on this blog site;2). Questionable first deal; 3). Is Sc Bowman going to influence some decisions? If so, we wait with baited breath to see if Bowman's strategy to win this year, and or keep team strong for future -- what exactly is his direction/objective? Wait and see, but RealWiz and others comments make Bowman look like maybe he is sailing in the uncharted GM water...and is Sc Bowman really a help -- was he a good deal maker when he himself was a GM? I don't know on that last call -- who knows Sc Bowman review as GM?
Anyone who would want Marleau over Bolland is sipping too much of the kool aid. That was really Bolland's 1st full year and he has so much more potential. Marleau is on the downslide.
Also I would be shocked if Heatley is traded for. And also it's the NHL who want to show case the Hawks in Finland. I don't think McDonough was pushing for that
Bolland does have the tools to be a very good #2 or even a decent #1 center in the NHL. He progressed and played very well in the OHL. (I was hoping he'd beat out Robby Schremp for the scoring title that last season with London) He didn't need too much time in the AHL before he was ready to make the jump up to the NHL and he played a pretty important role with the team last year. We all know he played with Havlat and that doesn't hurt his game, but that line also played a shut down role against other team's top units. Bolland also spent a good chunk of time on the PK and not so much on the PP unit. You guys know I like the numbers, just take a look at the ones below. More than twice as much time killing penalties compared to time spent on the PP and he didn't even really get huge amounts of ice time overall.
Bolland and where he ranked amoung NHL Centers
G - 19 - 47th
A - 28 - 45th
Pts 47 - 46th
+/- +19 - 11th
PIM 52 - 41st
Ice Time - 16:27 - 79th
PP Ice Time - 87:09 - 102nd
SH Ice Time - 185:43 - 33rd
I think if he learns to win more faceoffs and apply his offensive skills, we will have a extremely valuable two way center that can play in any situation. By the end of this seasons (with the exception of injury) he should have 200 games under his belt and he might turn some heads.
Looking forward to a big year from #36
get slotted in top drives me crazy, already not a long drive.
Although Volchenkov is a defensive upgrade over Barker, he doesn't come close to Barker's PP skills, but for the sake of argument I will give you this part.
Kane and Versteeg for a player that Ottawa has not been able to swap means the Hawks pay a fairly high price for a guy Ottawa has very few destinations left to shop.
Couldn't wouldn't Ottawa after making this deal be able to trade either Vesteeg or Kane with their Cap reasonable present deals to about anybody immediately AFTER Ottawa acquires them?
Yes is the answer.
So why would the rookie Hawk GM make his second error in trading by giving two huge marketable, Cap reasonable players up when HE himself can send Kane and or Versteeg packing and drive their value up himself, instead of taking Heatley.
Bowman would have to have a stable of management people in his house who have thoroughly convinced him that Heatley is not the renegade we thought he was, that Heatley will shut his mouth, and play wherever, whatever on ice situations (or not) Q puts him, and will sign a 5 year extension for 4 mil a year, and live in Lil Scotty's basement!
And Steven concerning Marleau: 'hawks need to be stronger at Centre, but is Marleau the answer to that after Madden Kopecky upgrades. Didn't San Jose have him on scoring wing a huge amount of time because they had better all zone players at pivot?
Just asking....
Wiz, baby Bowman is listening to his father, but his father was not a good GM. (The great GM behind papa Bowman's rings was, as you know, Sam Pollack.) In my opinion, Stan made his first mistake. The first of many I am afraid, because he got his job, not because he was the best man for it, but because his father made a deal for him to get it.
A deal was made, QOs were held back, and a good man was fired for another man's personal gain, and a bitter man's ego.
I'm not saying I believe any of the rumors off of one site are legit since nobody else is really commenting on it since Friday, but I was just thinking out loud.
As far as Marleau goes, I guess I am not sold on Dave Bolland. I really think that unless the Hawks pump in a LEGIT talent to replace Havlat on his wing, you will see him fall back a bit. Havlat was a huge factor in Bolland's emergence last year. Do I trust Bolland to center a top 6 line? Not now. That is my reasoning behind Marleau. Plus, he's only on the books for 1 year, and if the goal is to win a championship I think you go for it every year. Not a huge believer in the step process. This team jumped all the way to the conference finals last year, so what really would the next step be?
Lots of expectations this year. This team will get everyone's best effort, and I dont' know who mentioned it, but that idiotic Europe trip could easily throw this team off it's a game for a few weeks. Why the hell are the Hawks playing Florida in Finland? I don't see one positive in this. That's McDonaugh begging for any exposure he can get. Please. Winter Classic is one thing, but I bet the players wont' be thrilled about flying back and forth to Europe and playing what will feel like exhibition games against the mighty and wordly popular, Florida Panthers.
If this team falters a bit in October, look no further then that trip.
The league send 2 - 4 teams across to "promote" the league.
I don't think they choose the teams by the number of European born participants or the Deadwings would be there every year.
I don't think marleau plays so much wing because he adds scoring in so much as he doesn't have to dish the bisquit.
I said it before, these trips can lead to a long season for teams and a few bad bounces early might have the team scrabbling for answers if the are 3 & 7 in early play. The shoot-out points tend to make catch up more difficult and battling to get "back on track" could put a strain on the players, coaching and management solutions.
and I think Havlat WAS replaced albiet not at the season's start by a player MUCH MORE DYNAMIC, LETHAL, and with better on ice VISION.
I stated below the Cap issues that seem to have them already in the hole PRIOR to THIS season, make a Heatley or Marleau trade impossible unless 4 Hawks go the other at VERY LEAST, a high price to pay in team chemistry for either, or why would both those guys be available, right?
Rain, I couldn't agree more about the trip to Finland. The hawks don't even have a bunch of Finns. Neimi is all I can think of off hand, and he is no sure bet to play. And the hawks play their first 8 games in 15 days, the first two overseas. Makes no sense, and if they don't get it going until almost thanksgiving, the trip has a lot to do with it. Then it will be just in time for the annual november road trip. With St. Louis & Columbus figuring to be a lot tougher, a compressed olympic year schedule with a number of hawks playing in them, and goaltending questions- good luck. They are going to need it.
It is really hard to believe that the Hawks would trade for a guy making 7-8 million dollars a year with negotiations with Kane, Keith and Toews in their near future. But I didn't think the Sox would trade for Peavy and his 18-19 million a year either so occasionally these GM's throw a surprise party when you least expect it.
But Heatley......hmmmm. The only way I see this happening is if Kane or Toews go as part of the deal and it isn't likely Ottawa wants a player in return they'll need to sign for 6-8 years for massive dollars. And surprises or no surprises I don't believe a first year GM would trade The Captain or even Kane unless the Hawks think/know one or the other wants Ovechkin or Crosby money. While both guys have upsides we haven't seen yet they aren't a one man highlight reel like Ovechkin or walk around with a championship ring on their finger like Crosby or Malkin. So if they want too much money they'll be gone one way or another. But a lot has to happen before they ever get moved and it would be odd if they added a malcontent like Heatley or trade a captain moving into his prime after just adding a big bucks high scoring character guy like Hossa.
and besides whether you think the Hawks can afford the 6.3 Marleau makes or the 7.5 Heatley makes neither gets the Cap relief to start this season even if you paid Campbell.
It might give the fan base a new high salary to boo.
They are OVER the Cap now. The relief has to come from some deal where the new player/salary is much lower.
Does anyone see the Hawks trading for Heatley or Marleau (with one year on that deal) and giving up three or four rostered players, say Sharp, Barker, Brouwer?
They STILL make a total of approx. 7.45 million so you still are getting equal salary back for Heatley and not enough Cap relief in a trade for Marleau.
(Much less you gave three for one!)
So I think you all are wasting your time barking up a trees at the squirrels that are not falling down to the ground at our feet.
......Patrick Kane has a minor scuffle with a cab driver and 90% of the people on this sight are ready to crucify him because he's not a "character" guy and he's "disrespectful to his elders." Now it's probably the same 90% of you salivating at the thought of acquiring a guy who was convicted of killing one of his teammates. Which is it guys? Do you want talent or character? I think a lot of you are talking out of both sides of your mouth on this one.
Goes beyond this incident.
I agree that everyone should step back and realize this is a 20 year old kid. But let me also say this: if adding the pieces necessary to win a Stanley Cup or two means giving up Patrick Kane, then you do it.
Yes, he has ungodly talent in his hands and vision, but he also has a big hole in his game. And what it will take to improve on that or overcome it makes his maturity and character relevant.
And you have to give to get.
Kane for Heatley straight up makes no sense. It's the ancillary players that might be involved that could make it a good deal for both teams. For the Sens, it would be multiple building blocks. For the Hawks it would be losing some depth and shedding salary, also eliminating Kane's raise next year from the equation, while adding not just a "replacement" for Kane, but, most importantly, the perfect complement for Campbell: Anton Volchenkov.
But that's just my theory/proposal. Would likely never happen.
Heater has intimated that the whole story is not told yet in regards to the Sens. Look for more once a trade is finally done.
The thing with the Leafs is, they now have their own 1st/2nd/3rd round picks back.
Which is the compensation that they would need to give the Bruins when they sign Kessel to an offer sheet.
I am torn...part of me doesn't want the Hawks to get Heater because of his talent...but the other part is hoping it happens because of the circus that will come with him...as a Canuck fan, thats good!
Dan, if they pay Restricted Free agent Kessell over
$4,520,150 and any number between that and $6,026,867 they Bruins would receive
1st, 2nd, 3rd all the signing teams original picks and in the NEXT draft, so that is why there is that speculation.
You have bigger problems to worry about with your Vancouver Canucks who now have taken on THREE new salaries at defense with Bieksa, Mitchell, Salo, & Edler ALREADY making at least 3.2 each + O'Brien's 1.6 ?
Eight defenseman and a Cap headache.
Nonis in over his head or do these GMs know something about the Cap this year we don't?
Luv ya Wiz...but Nonis was the previous GM...Mike Gillis you mean.
Who has brought in tons of players that could challenge for spots.
This will be a very competitive camp in Vancity.
I am thinking some vets could be playing in Winnipeg, if they can get them through waivers.
Or, more likely, Gillis makes a deal for prospects and/or picks.
Its all good!
The man says that RIGHT NOW, he can be compliant with the Cap and still sign Sundin if he wants to come back.
Not sure how that is done, but then thats why he is GM and I am not!
You forget Ehrhoff is making just over 3 mil too.
So, yes, something has got to give.
Interesting times...
Hossa's out 15 games or so.
Based on what I saw at Prospects Camp, I'd love to see Akim Aliu for 10-15 games early in the season, assuming they can get him to play in all three zones.
I think he will get a look if he can have a good training camp. I mean, he has all the tools needed to be a decent player.
Does anyone know what his issues in Ottawa are? He seems to have that malcontent label so while he is a great talent I'm wondering if the Hawks would be getting the NHL version of Milton Bradley. We all know how that's worked out for the Cubs. It would seem that from a salary cap perspective Campbell would have to be involved in a deal as canadianhawksfan suggested.
One of the main reasons I heard was ice time, or more specifically time on the power play. He still gets a good share of PP time to be sure, but I have to think the other part of it is the fact that Ottawa won't be a cup contender for a while. They sunk like a rock over the last two seasons and no real signs of much improvement on the horizon.
Very similar situations. He does not respect the new coach. Not an excuse or a rationalization. But that is the gist of the problem. I suspect he also wants out because the Sens are far from being competitive again.
I was trying to think of one earlier.....Agreed.
I know some people will verbally trash him for his problem in Atlanta, but you can't discount the talent level. This a pure goal scorer, and can anyone name the last Hawk who was this gifted?
I'm thinking JR before Hatcher blew out his knee.......
You judge a GM by his moves and getting an extra third a year later to give back the early Toronto pick next year is a HUGE MISTAKE and a DISAPPOINTMENT!!!
You don;t have to take my word, but I have be doing this for a long time, and the 2011 draft looks like it may not produce anything but marginal NHLers even in the first round, while next years is strong.
Stan, you very well may have cost us and I suggest you ask yourself, who advised you to do this?
That person and you have erred, in my humble opinion.
Burke can go get the Kessell and we take a step back in the area we need to be the MOST strong to make the CAP work.
Wiz-
I don't doubt your expertise in this, but isn't it early to write off an entire draft 2 years out?
I remember when the Hawks landed the 1st pick 2 years ago, that people were making comments about how there wasn't a Crosby or Malkin type player, and Kane has turned out to be a pretty good draft pick.
all three are huge big time scoring players whereas (and I will be the last person to downplay Kane's gifted vision and passing abilities) Patrick Kane is more of a playmaker than big time scorer.
Would you not trade him for anyone of the three I mentioned?
Are they better in the defensive zone?
When I say the class is weak, I mean there seems to be agreement worldwide that it is a poor class where guys already penciled in as maybe third rounders and being moved into second round slots because potential second rounders are being bumped into first round lists. That makes trading a potential 2010 second rounder where Toronto will draft (with the top 45 at very least) for two picks in 2011 that shake out as 3rd and 4th rounders in comparison to the plethora of good prospects available prospects this June.
Even if that top 45 pick was used along with the first rounder to move lower in 2010, your chances increase to draft a much more solid player.
I totally understand how draft picks are Cap related and each selected player then is a guaranteed dollar rookie salary IF they make the big leagues, as opposed to having to sign UFAs, trade for new players, or sign undrafted college prospects who are UFAs.
I understand it is so much better to have more of them.
I would be unopposed of this move if it weren't for the fact that the move locks you in to a thin year. if the trade was for tow picks in 2012 I have no problem.
Google NHL draft 2011 thin weak in many forms and see if you get anything....
I'm trying to figure out why Bowman would make the deal especially if the 2011 draft class is weak. He should have access to the same scouting reports that you do. You're doing your homework but I wonder if Stan is doing his. I'll take your word on this. The only other reason that he may have made the swap is if there is some sort of future considerations attached to the deal where the Hawks may benefit later.
I know this is the wrong spot for any kind of analysis except which way next year's Stanley Cup parade is going to run: North along Michigan Avenue or West to Madison but aren't the Hawks still a bit weak at center and fairly strong at wing?
Toews is Toews but Bolland, depite breaking the bank, is still a bit of a wildcard. I liked him with Ladd and Havlat but Havlat was magic last season and he gone. Madden was a shadow of himself last season in NJ. Most of the Devils blog comments were happy to see him go. Does anyone think Fraser or Burrish can center a fourth line on a Stanley Cup winning team?
Heatly is a great proven player and getting him would be awesome. The powerplay would lead the league and he's score 50 but end up -10. Lots of smoke around Kane, Campbell and Barker so a package of 1 or 2 of those for Heatly wouldn't be shocking however, Stan better remember that teams are built up the middle and goaltending and center are areas that need to be shored up if this team is going to advance.
Better move would be the 3 way deal everyone expected months ago. Campbell to Ottawa. Heatly to San Jose and Marleau to the Hawks.
Your suggestion makea a lot sense. If you can get rid of Campbell's contract, and you can get Marleau and his salary for only 1 year. This would enable the hawks to sign Kane, Toews, and Keith pretty easily. However, if Kane is asking for the bank in extension talks, then maybe you include him and take back Heatley. Kane isn't worth Malkin, Crosby, or Ovechkin money. He's still not a point a game player, and has tailed off considerably every January so far in his two years. Regardless of injury.
I'm not sure if Heatley is getting a fair rap, as it isn't any different then any other professional athlete demanding a trade. He's a rare talent, and would help ease the scoring burden off guys like Versteeg, Bolland, and Buff who will be expected to step up their games this year.
Did Kane or anyone make any comment about asking for Malkin, Crosby or Ovechkin money? I mean, no offense to Kane, but he isn't on the same level as those players and honestly never will be. They have skill and ability that you can't teach or learn, you just have that natural ability and work on it, or you don't. Don't get me wrong, Kane is a skilled guy and has some great talent, but he isn't worth a big contract when you consider how poorly he plays defensively and physically.
I guess my point is, has there been any indication he is looking for this kind of money or is everyone just assuming based on his attitude?
That if he is indeed part of the supposed trade to the Senators, I am sure the Hawks would have gone to him and tried to sign him to an extension only to find that he is asking for money that he is not qualified for.
In fact, I have no clue what is a fair price for him. Lots of talent, but the stats don't justify a huge deal like a Crosby, Ovechkin, or Malkin. That's my point. He's not even a point a game player yet, and everyone needs to keep in mind that he has tailed off considerably in January both years. Last year was due to an injury, but still.....
I like Kane as a player, and I would hope the Hawks would exhaust all optoins before entertaining trading him....
I was just commenting on all I keep seeing on here where this same theme of him asking that much money comes up. I hope they can keep all three Kane, Toews and Keith, but if I had to see one of them go via trade, I would hope it was Kane before Keith or Toews. I'm pretty sure I'm in the majority on that one.
You'd have to think that a deal for Heatley would involve sending him off, just for the salary reasons alone.
First of all, all the Campbell bashers need to examine the realities of what he means to this team. They went from 10th in the conference to 4th in the conference last year. What was the difference? Well, unless you're willing to say it was Huet (probably not) or Quenneville (maybe a little), it was the power play, which went from 19th in the conference to 12th, and 1st in the playoffs. Before Campbell came, the Hawks had no one to run it. IF they dealt him, guess what happens? So, he's highly paid but also very valuable and maybe not replaceable.
Second, the RFA flap left the Hawks with a LOT of good, young forwards who make in excess of $3 million a year. So many, in fact, that some of them will be playing on the third line, because of how stacked this team is. So, 1-2 of them, and/or Cam Barker could be packaged in a deal for Heatley.
And if it's me making trades for the Hawks, I do a big, multi-player deal that brings both Heatley AND Anton Volchenkov. The Hawks would have to send a lot back. But they have the depth to deal and in so doing, they'd add another big scoring threat and the perfect defensive partner for Brian Campbell. AND, they might give themselves some cap relief next year in the process.
has an attachment we have not seen yet(since I just don't get this two in a carp draft for one in a quality draft)?
Maybe there is a future deal involving a defenseman like Exelby's 1.4 mil salary coming our way WHEN there IS Cap space, maybe prior to the deadline.
I agree that a Anton Volchenkov IS the ingredient the dee needs, but since both aforementioned defenseman have no contracts past June, either would be a loaner, and since the Vochenkov already makes 1.1 million more than Exelby he is a btter Cap fit (much like Pahlsson's salary fitting).
I think you see two deals.
One to trim the present roster to season CAP ready, and
one later to either bolster for the Cup run, or (hopefully not) a wholesale dispersal of fat contracts to elsewhere to clear room for Keith Toews Kane signings.
I'm not bashing Campbell, nor do I want to. I'm just talking about salary and what would be more likely for the Hawks to part with. Campbell does help the powerplay, but he does take up a lot of cap too. Also consider that Barker can take more powerplay load if Campbell was gone and he showed last year that he can produce points with the man advantage. (I'm not saying he is a replacement, but someone who would benefit from more PP ice time to be sure).
I don't see the Hawks trading too many young forwards yet, not until they get a better idea of how valuable they are. I expect Kane, Toews and Keith to all put up their best year, they are moving closer to their prime, looking to increase their contract value and their trade value should only get better as the season moves on.
As I know he helped propel the putrid Hawks powerplay into the top 10 this year, and besides a giveaway against Detroit, he had a very strong playoff run. I also think he's only going to get better here, as now he can settle in and not worry about trying to justify his contract. Plus if they trade him, who runs this powerplay and rushes the puck up the ice?
However, to get Heatley they would have to dump a very large contract if the goal is to still be able to sign Kane, Toews, and keith. Now if the Hawks have started talking to all 3 and found that Kane is commanding Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin money....then maybe you include him. That's all up to the Kane camp, and I really hope that Bowman has done this. He needs to get a feel for what these 3 are expecting. I would love to see him sign at least 1 before the season starts...Any word on this Tim?
I also agree with the thought process of acquiring Marleau since he's only on the books for this year. However, it would be a lot to give up for a rental type player, unless the Hawks had plans of resigning him....
This all could be for not, but if the Hawks are inquiring and doing more then kicking tires, then maybe Bowman does something here......
For the Leafs, anyways. Interesting how the Hawks would improve if Heatley is brought back to Chicago - thought he played for the Wolves, once upon a time?
I can't think of another way to free space to bring him here (if that is the plan, Stan) than to have a closeout sale on, I dunno, a goalie, packaged with a forward?
Or maybe we could stand Pat and see how the season goes?
Where the H. E. double hockey sticks is Scards when we need to know what the future will bring?!?!
Kane, Barker and Versteeg for Heatley, Volchenkov and a 2010 #1 pick.
Sharp-Toews-Heatley
Ladd-Bolland-Hossa
Byfuglien-Madden-Brouwer
Eager-Burish-Kopecky
Skille
Keith-Seabs
Campbell-Volchenkov
Hammer-Sopel
Johnson
slotted on .... drives me crazy, already not a long drive.
Although Volchenkov is a defensive upgrade over Barker, he doesn't come close to Barker's PP skills, but for the sake of argument I will give you this part.
Kane and Versteeg for a player that Ottawa has not been able to swap means the Hawks pay a fairly high price for a guy Ottawa has very few destinations left to shop.
Couldn't wouldn't Ottawa after making this deal be able to trade either Vesteeg or Kane with their Cap reasonable present deals to about anybody immediately AFTER Ottawa acquires them?
Yes is the answer.
So why would the rookie Hawk GM make his second error in trading by giving two huge marketable, Cap reasonable players up when HE himself can send Kane and or Versteeg packing and drive their value up himself, instead of taking Heatley.
Bowman would have to have a stable of management people in his house who have thoroughly convinced him that Heatley is not the renegade we thought he was, that Heatley will shut his mouth, and play wherever, whatever on ice situations (or not) Q puts him, and will sign a 5 year extension for 4 mil a year, and live in Lil Scotty's basement!
And Steven concerning Marleau: 'hawks need to be stronger at Centre, but is Marleau the answer to that after Madden Kopecky upgrades. Didn't San Jose have him on scoring wing a huge amount of time because they had better all zone players at pivot?
Just asking....