Hard to replace what Burish does
For purely personal reasons, I am going to miss Adam Burish terribly for the next five or six months. He's the best quote in the Blackhawks' dressing room.
Seriously, though, the Hawks are going to miss Burish even more.
The fourth line was one of the Hawks' strengths last season and the leader of the group was Burish. He's a sandpaper guy, an agitating shift disturber who can't be replaced unless the Hawks go out and trade for a guy who does the same thing.
Burish was a difference maker in the playoffs, partly because of his strong play and penalty killing, and partly because he got under the skin of guys like Jarome Iginla and Rene Bourque of the Flames, helping to either take them off their game, or out of their game, in Bourque's case.
Jack Skille can play on the fourth line. So can Jake Dowell. But they don’t do what Burish does. Troy Brouwer doesn’t either.
On those nights when his teammates might be sluggish, Burish always could be counted on to skate, trying his best to light a fire and change the momentum with a big hit or a scrap.
At least Burish should be back in March (he promised) and ready for the playoffs. Until then don’t be surprised if GM Stan Bowman at least starts snooping around the league for an energy-type player to fill the gap in case Skille doesn’t play well early.
Assuming Kris Versteeg, Dave Bolland and Dustin Byfuglien are healthy next week, here’s how the Hawks could begin the season at forward Oct. 2 in Finland against Florida:
Sharp-Toews-Kane
Versteeg-Bolland-Byfuglien
Ladd-Madden-Brouwer
Eager-Kopecky-Skille
That’s still not bad.
When Burish went down last year, the hawks went 10-4-2 (including 5-3-2 on the road), a better winning percentage than when he was in the lineup.
the fourth line was made by eager & fraser who at least chipped in with some respectable numbers (each almost double what burish produced). and unlike burish, eager could at least fight. burish was good at instigating jerry springer type rumbles & not being able to finish them.
and for a supposed important penalty killer, he took a lot of dumb penalties.
rather than credit his trash talking for helping in the playoffs, it was actually the other way around...it almost lit a fire on the flames before some of the hawks own players told him to tone it down...
the hawks could use more legitimate toughness - i.e. guys that can also play & take care of business when necessary - aliu & beach were supposedly guys that fit that mold but apparently haven't shown they are ready to make the next step.
in any case, replacing a marginal 4th line guy is the least of the hawks problems.
more important is replacing havlat's offensive production until hossa returns, particularly on the pp and that responsibility will fall mainly on the shoulders of kane, toews & sharp. and given that the goaltending won't be as strong this year, the defense may not be able to afford to be as active offensively. with precious little cap flexibility to work with, i doubt bowman is stupid enough to waste it on trying to replace a very expendable 4th liner.
Agree on the Havlat scoring. I really think people are underestimating how important he was last year. We are going to see if Dave Bolland is legit. I have some doubts, and I could care less what he did in jrs or Rockford, because I have heard that tune with Troy Brouwer and he hasn't been able to come close to duplicating his lower level performances. A guy who scored in the 30s is now a role player. Great that he's strong on his skates, and I get that, but to play with Toews and Kane he better start scoring A LOT more.
Dave Bolland is the key. If he can create offense without Marty, and BURRY his chances the Hawks will be OK.
I read the other post about Ladd. Torn on this guy. That line last year so was so good defensively, and put so much pressure on the other team that I hope the Hawks 3rd line can do that as well this year. I think Ladd is perfect in that role. Not expected to carry a team scoring, but good enough to be a solid contributor.
The Europe trip is scary. Just go there, play the exhibition games, play the world reknown Panthers twice, and get back as healthy as possible. Then we will see how much this trip takes out of them. I don't think you can gage it against Detroit (europe as well) or vs Colorado (home opener), but after that....watch out. At some point those 8 hr flights are going to hurt this team.
Going to miss Burish. He took some stupid pentalies, but unlike a lot of Hawk pentaly killers, he was aggressive at the points and didn't allow teams to walk down to the circles and fire away. He always put his body on the line, and hopefully somebody can fill that void. I saw way too many times last year Dave Bolland dropping below the face off circles on PKs. That needs to be addressed.
Lastly, anyone hear this rumor about the Hawks dealing Barker and Versteeg for Frolov and some young d-man? It makes sense ONLY in the sense that it frees up 3+ million in cap room this year, and Frolov (2.9 this year) can walk after this year. SO the Hawks would save over 6 million heading into the summer. However, it seems like a lot to give up for that guy.
and seeing how Kane seems to be motivated by any amount of money, I expect he'll have a good year, as long as he stays healthy. he also has that NHL 10 cover boy image to maintain...
Toews will give his all no matter what his contract status is, as will Keith.
I think the hawks season is going to come down to these 3 guys since they are not only their best players, but in the case of Toews & keith, also captain & assistant, whose responsibility will be to keep the other guys on track.
the question marks will be how do bolland, versteeg, hossa, barker, etc. respond to their inflated new contracts? do they take their foot off the gas a little, knowing they have "security" or will they remain as hungry & motivated as they appeared last year? versteeg surprised last year - but given his size & style, will he be able to stay away from injuries or will he shy away from high traffic areas to prevent getting hurt & thus become less effective?
does byfuglien perform like the force he was in the playoffs or like the largely invisible hulk he was during the regular season? sharp missed a significant time last season due to injury & when he played he was streaky, as he has been most of his career - he's going to need to stay healthy & be more consistent, at least until hossa starts chipping in.
bolland had a great season last year & it will be interesting to see how he does without havlat. bolland's back is a concern - it boggles my mind that the hawks would sign him to an untradeable 5 years knowing he had back issues all last year...but then again, they signed hossa to age 42 without a physical. frankly, I'm expecting more from madden than I am from bolland, tho I hope i'm wrong.
which leads me to the next concern - how is hossa going to respond to the pressure of his big fat contract & the much higher expectations he'll have thrust on him in Chicago, especially missing the start of the season? if the hawks don't get off to a good start (distinct possibility given all the other question marks), hossa is going to have that much more pressure on him when he comes back. if his performance in last season's Cup finals & game 7 in particular are any indication, i'm not expecting anything near to what most hawks fans seem to be.
Bryan Campbell is probably the most relieved hawk to see hossa become the new vastly overpaid mistake.
as for barker/versteeg for frolov - too much to give up for a guy who could walk after a year & the hawks don't have the cap room to re-sign frolov. thanks to their lack of cap room, I suspect the hawks may end up losing 1 of the big 3 at the end of the season, like boston lost kessel...if they can get what the bruins got in return, i'd take it.
The one and only way for Q and friends to figure out if Skille is a 2nd or 3rd line player is to put him on those lines for an extended stay in the regular season and see what happens, much like the extended rope they gave Buff last year. Otherwise they're shooting pucks in the dark in regards to what type of player he can be. With Hossa out now is the time to find out what he can do.
It probably means moving Buff or Brouwer to the 4th line. Versteeg, assuming he is healthy when the season starts, stays on the 2nd line in my eyes as he is the Hawks most aggressive offensive player next to 88. Versteeg is definitely a 2nd line guy if Bolland can't play and will probably play center unless Kopecky has more offensive skills than we saw in Detroit which isn't impossible.
Tim, why didn't you mention Colin Fraser ? He was one of the best forwards when they put him in game 5, and all year he shown he could do the little things needed for a 4th line center. Not bad on faceoffs, good defensively, and should even be better this year. I think he definately should be playing.
Last year I went around and around the issue of some players and their shortcoming(s). So I see this Fraser comment as an opportunity to address an issue which I brought up later last hockey season.
First, however, let me say thank you for your input..and I generally agree with your observations. I will say that while what you say about Fraser above is for the most part accurate, I have to wonder if you might be attaching some of the warrior/heart and smarts label to Fraser a la Burrish. Not so much smarts always with Burrish. Anyway, I am always interested in having a strong face off man and someone with speed and or size in that third and fourth center position. Sure, that's ideal ..we all would LIKE to have that for our #3 and #4 center. I feel that due to last change on enemy ice, it is imperative whenever possible to have players who match up best against the other team's top one or two centericemen. Reaction time is very good, smarts is very good, defensively Fraser is good....but he is avg at best on draws, is too small physically and is just to slow to stick around for a long time as a fourth center. I'm not going to say Dowell and or Brophey may supplant him, because I don't know if they would offer the defensive awareness and reaction time that Fraser is noted for. I also will add...at least in the later half of the season it appeared that Fraser lost more often than he won on his draws. Please feel free to reply if you have numbers and or other thoughts. As with other posters, even if someone doesn't totally agree, I respect your thoughts. BTW, HP53, would you move Barker and Versteeg for a good d-man to put with Campbell, or an above avg #2 center given Boland's back may be a problem over the years? Just wondering your thoughts.
I'll mention again, Jacukel and REALWIZ....do you still hold to your comment that VanRiemsdyck is a bust? I realize that scoring three goals in exhibition doesn't necessarily prove anything. I have no information how he has looked in preseason irregardless the goals scored. This was the somewhere #3-#5 overall choice; suddenly -- after the World Juniors last x-mas season -- you guys say he is now considered a bust. I'm willing to take your word for it..but could you shed some light on just why he has obtained this label from you? And ..Boldirev post must be on vacation. Dan in Vanc. -- want to see if Grabner makes roster, can someone get him the puck regularly...because I know he has blazing speed and is a known goal scorer. I recall he had some issues with physical checking in the past....FYI posters this is a former #1 choice. And Dan, what upside do you predict for Edler?
Nice to have friends dept. Bob Murray has brought Steve McCarthy on board...let's see if he makes the squad. Here's Chicago's former #1 and I thought he was NHL history. Looks like Chellios is history! Chicohawk: Toronto overpaid for Kessell (?)/interested your opinion & Toronto media thoughts whenever you post .
Media appears split in Toronto re: what Burke gave up. I think it was too much - some have suggested he could have signed a UFA like Cammaleri & got similar production without giving up any picks & fwiw, I agree.
But most are cutting Burke a lot of slack since the team is on the upswing & won't be pushovers anymore (especially physically) & may surprise a few people if they get goaltending. I wish the hawks had gone after Burke when he was available, but it now seems clear that stan was the man they had a plan for, when scotty was lured from detroit (perhaps it was even a condition for scotty to come over???).
i know your question about barker & versteeg, etc., wasn't directed to me, but I would have no problems moving barker (too erratic & inconsistent to be a top 4 imo). i like versteeg tho could do without some of his cocky antics - shot between the legs, etc. he has a ton of skill, doesn't shy away from high traffic areas despite his relatively small size & unlike barker has his head into the games.
the other guy I would also start listening to offers for is kane. having lived with stan his first year, you would expect he would have learned to be more mature & how to conduct himself off the ice, but that doesn't appear to have happened.
he has tons of skill as he showed in the playoffs with amazing goals vs. luongo & later vs. detroit to tie up game 5 late. but it looks to me like he overestimates his ability & tries too often to make hi risk/low probability plays (eg. errant point passes that kill pp's), and he isn't always interested in playing in the defensive zone.
that is attributable to an immature, selfish attitude that should be disappearing as time goes on, but perhaps having lived with stan, he thinks he can get away with that crap.
if he responds to the challenge of picking up the slack from missing havlat/hossa and leads the team offensively, I would try to re-sign the guy. If he doesn't, I look to move him, especially given the hawks cap problems & his likely selfish demands....
kane = the hawk's kessel??
Brouwer-Toews-Kane
Sharp-Bolland-Byfuglien
Ladd-Madden-Versteeg
Eager-Dowell-Kopecky
(Skille)
That top line worked all year last year. Sharp and Buff have obvious chemistry.
If Bolland's out (and I have a funny feeling he will be):
Brouwer-Toews-Kane
Sharp-Kopecky-Buff
Ladd-Madden-Versteeg
Eager-Dowell-Skille
(Fraser)
Sharpie on the line with JT & Kaner with Hossa out for several more weeks?
I can see breaking them 3 up a bit to balance things but also think the Sharp-JT-Kane line could be lethal.
I say give A. Ladd a chance to become a power forward who can score. He is only 23 and for example he is ahead of a guy named Bertuzzi at this stage of his career. He should be a fixture on the second line and be given pp time on the second unit. Let's give this guy a chance to grow and not make him a third line grinder. He is very young and is quite a complete player for his age. He could easily turn into a S. Doan type of leader for this team.
the guy definately has potential, whether he can be a legit scorer or another Stephane Matteau is debateable, either way though, a significant contributer
Those 2 guys should gel quite well. Plus being on a line with Versteeg he can also jump into the play knowing how well Madden plays on his side of the red line.
Agreed. He plays and both ends of the ice and was very underated last year. Havlat made that line tick last year and I have a feeling he will bounce around between lines since he isn't the kind of player that can do it all himself.
Tim,
I still think Skille is a guy whose overall game doesn't really fit any line.
My big question would be: can he play an agitating/pesky role on the fourth line? In terms of his speed and size, if he had the heart and the want-to, he could actually approximate Burish.
Until then, I'm not sure I wouldn't rather see Dowell. He's been a forgotten man since year before last, but he actually can play that role reasonably well.
Bursih will be missed for sure, but I also agree there is so much talent there, they should be fine. Madden's add is now HUGE, because of losing Burish.
Jack Skille is one of those guys that if given the opportunity he will come through. He can really skate and can score as he does have a sudden wrist shot. This is a guy who will start out on a 3rd or 4th line and in a couple year move into a top six position. I project him as a poor mans Bill Guerin, remember Guerin took a number of years to become the player he was in his prime. On the other hand there is also a chance he could become another first round pick that turns out like a guy named Boyd Devereau, a good role player. I am hoping for a Guerin type, obvioulsly.
He hasn't exactly lit up the AHL scoring wise. He's been OK there. For comparison sake, Brouwer was MUCH more productive at that level.
The only way Skille is ever a top 6 player is the same way Radim Vrbata is . . . as in, on a bad team.
He CAN become a really good third line player if he adjusts his game to that style of play. But that takes commitment and heart. Not saying he doesn't have it. But . . . , a decent preseason game against essentially Washington's AHL club is NOT a good metric for what he can do for this team in the regular season.
Hockey is not all skating and shooting. If it were, Joe Murphy (and many others) would be in the Hall of Fame.
I have no problem with Skille working his butt off on a 3rd or 4th line player to get his defensive side of his game in order but I also believe he is capable down the road to be a top six forward that is reliable at both ends of the rink. He is very young and he still growing as a player. Anyone who can skate like him and shoot like him has big upside in my opinion. I believe he has lots of heart and only time will tell. I remember Shane Doan struggling offensively for about four seasons before he broke through when put on a line with Roenick and Tkachuk in Phoenix. Since then he has grown into a very steady and durable performer. I honestly believe that Jack Skille can grow into that kind of player if given the chance. That being said I thought the same thing about Fredrick Sjostrom and I was wrong, he just never developed even though he was a tremendous skater and an awesome shot. I just hope Jack gets a chance to be a top six one day because I totally loved the way he played in college. The truth is I also drafted him in a keeper pool so I do have a a special interest in him.
Too bad Aliu wasn't able to take it to the next level in camp. This is the opening he needed to earn a spot on the roster.
Was Probie working out with Lemieux and Fleury?
How sweet would that be? Hey #24's available, too. Unfortunately, I think Bob was done when he left.
he was done when he got here
...and not for Probie, either.