Why Niemi over Crawford?
Blackhawks GM Stan Bowman claimed it was partly a business decision to keep Antti Niemi as the backup goalie instead of Corey Crawford.
But Niemi showed Saturday it was more than that with a 4-0 shutout of the Florida Panthers in his first start. Niemi had a slightly better camp than Crawford, a former second-round draft pick who now has to wonder if there’s much of a future for him in Chicago.
Little was said about Niemi winning the backup job, although Bowman told the Sun-Times some of what went into the decision.
“They came into camp neck-and-neck and had similar camps,” Bowman said. “It came down to Corey being exempt from re-entry waivers, so if a player is injured, we can bring Corey up. Antti wouldn't have been exempt.
“In a lot of ways it was a business decision. You'd like one to be so much different than the other one, but they were similar in camp.”
Crawford has cleared waivers on Friday and can be sent to Rockford, where he will start his fifth season in the American Hockey League.
Starting tomorrow night, these next few games will be big to get a feel for if this European trip took anything out of them.
They need to take advantage of the home schedule and jump on teams that are off to slow starts (Detroit, Vancouver).
I guess there will be Huet talk from now until he either wins the Cup, gets traded or becomes the backup again but it is already getting old. If the coaching staff gave Buff 3/4 of a season to figure out what he was doing they'll probably give Huet more than a game or two as the number one guy before they get too carried away. I suspect he has until Thanksgiving to get comfortable and become "The Guy". That's fine with me if it is the case as Huet has not proven that he can't do the job. Jeez, Khabibulin played between average and poorly for three years for goodness sake. Even last year he had his shaky moments.
Also, I believe Niemi has played four games in the NHL.....so it is a tad early to start the Niemi Bandwagon tour. Seriously, Niemi has to play at minimum 20-30 games with the league viewing tapes of his play and adjusting to him before anyone has a clue about how good he can be.
But I know this....if the Hawks defense only allows 23-24 shots a game for the rest of the season like they did in Finland we'll see plenty of W's no matter who is in goal.
there is bound to be discussion that wanders off the main course & I don't see anything wrong with it.
If you are trying to censor the discussion....I don't think that is such a smart idea, but good luck to you. ;-)
If you tire of reading about Huet, ignore the posts - because there are going to be a ton of them with every blog post - virtually guaranteed.
& certainly in the broader discussion of Hawks goaltending, huet certainly fits & isn't off topic at all, especially after he & niemi just played the same team in back to back days in the first two games of the season, making comparisons of the two quite natural & topical.
Based on the comments so far, it's going to be a long year on the D.H. No matter what Huet does, the tirades will continue until he wins the Cup, gets traded, or gets beat out for the #1. Jeesh, you'd think we came back 0-2 like Detwat.
This whole thread's Huet slant is predicated on a lot of conjecture. Huet had an average game with some defensive lapses in front of him and Niemi had a very good game with much tighter defense. It's early, Huet hasn't played a lot yet this year and he does play better the more he plays.
One slight caveat though. I thought Florida had more quality chances vs. Huet on 24 shots than they did on Niemi. Again, supporting the overall point. Way too early to throw Huet under the bus.
But while 24 shots a night is generally good, it depends on the quality of those chances/shots.
Once Huet has a great game all those pointing the finger at him will change their minds. We can say all we want, but he really is another Jeff Hackett. We are stuck with him because someone really way over paid for his services. He will have some great games, but his stats point to having avg to sub-par games. His stats are also of a backup since he has never played more then 40 games in a season. He is 35 years old and not getting any younger. He could be the greatest team mate in the world, but if you look at what all the writers are saying this blog is not too far off. This team is built for a cup run, but the net is the big question for how far you can go. Hopefully he pulls it together and realizes what his weaknesses are and fixes them now. If not, they will be golfing by the second round.
Hackett was much better, in my view. Indeed, as Jackuel (although it seems he has been a Huet supporter more than not) rightly says, it seems to me, Hackett was much more athletic. At a superficial level (perhaps), Huet is another Bob Mason - a flash in the pan perhaps. Both Washington goalies who had good playoffs (Mason had the 4-OT game against the Isles back in 87 or so) and then parlayed that into a good contract with the Blackhawks.
He just turned 34.
He played 52 games in 07-08 (2.27 GAA, .919 save %, 32-14-6 record with two teams), 42 the year before and 41 last year.
Not sure about the Hackett comparison either. Maybe in terms of production. But no, not really. Huet's been more productive. Hackett always struck me as being pretty athletic where Cristo is really more of a blocker.
His main weakness is he can be beat up high, like 80-90% of the goalies in the league who play the same style. It's just that Pierre Maguire (mainly) has made such a huge deal out of it because of his man-crush on Western Canadian teams who aren't quite as good as the Hawks are. Someone needs to tell Pierre: wishing won't make it so and the Canucks are 0-3. His other crush, the Flames, appear to me to be the better team, FWIW.
I do agree that we are likely stuck with him because Tallon overpaid. But Tallon also overpaid because at least two other teams wanted him and he WAS the best FA goalie that summer AND the summer after.
Where are our trolling friends from Western Canada at? Funny how when their teams implode they go into a cocoon and only surface when all is right. Nobody can convince me otherwise about Vancouver until Roberta gets them past the 2nd round. Until then, I dont' care if they go 79-3 the rest of the way....he'll implode. He always does.
There is no doubt that this debate will rage on regarding Huet. Hopefully, Huet will step up and give the hawks somewhat consistent goaltending. If eliminates the soft goals which he seems prone to let in, I can handle it. If he is still far too inconsistent and costing the Hawks points, then you give Niemi or Crawford a shot before panicking and going after an old, journeyman goaltender.
I will also relax until 20-25 games have played out. Lets see where the Hawks are at, at that point and pray that they have taken advantage of their early home heavy schedule.
For all of you who like to point to stats in defense of Huet, how about we keep track of these stats:
A) losses when hawks score 4+ goals
B) wins when hawks score 3 goals or less (I believe they will lose more 4+ goal games than win 3- goal games)
C) soft goals per game (he will average 1.5 a game. When Towes takes an opening faceoff, the hawks have to play like they are down 2-0. They have to expect soft goals, or mentally they are going to take a beating)
In the end, any goalie has to make the saves he should make to keep his team in the game an have everyone get off his back. If not, the hawks will need the greatest defense in league history to win the cup.
This is taking Huet's "history" into perspective also. If history for some is one season at a time then so be it. But I've been having a problem with Huet when you at a minimum consider his time spent in Los Angeles, Montreal, Washington and last season in Chicago. As a whole, his career isn't one to make you feel too optimistic . For example, his career stats are 6-12 when playing in back to back games. Not exactly the kinda stats you want from your "new" 35 year old, presumed 55-60 game starting goalie for '09-'10. And I wasn't seeing faster reflexes from Huet when traffic and screens were in front of him in Helsinki. It didn't look to me like the career problems for Huet had somehow improved just because we started the '09-'10 season. Niemi is more athletic, so give Huet a short leash. This roster is a good one, the Cap gives us one year to make good on it. Huet shouldn't stand in our way just so we can give him more "time". His time has likely passed anyway.
I'm not a big Huet fan but before Niemi is handed the keys to the city keep in mind he only faced about 3 tough shots all night. The Hawks had the puck in the other end for about 2/3 of the game.
Start Niemi against Detroit on Thursday and I bet the calls for Huet's starting job are MIA on Friday morning.
That's what this article is about, not Huet. Niemi is more athletic, he is faster and I think he can handle the pressure. Huet is here for a while because no NHL team will take his contact...however we know that Niemi could steal the ice time if he pans out. The best thing for the Hawks cap situation would be if Huet would leave the NHL for the KHL. Honestly, if he gets put on the shelf, I could see it happening. Anyway, it's still a great time to be a Hawks fan, with or without Huet. The team is strong and we've seen how a strong team can carry a medicore goalie. (Osgood - Detroit)
Pierre LeBrun wrote a very nice piece on the Hawks offense on ESPN.com. THe other Pierre was too busy finding reasons to rip them on Friday, and I luckily didn't have to listen to him on Saturday.
My dream would be to see somebody fire a puck in between the benches and crack that moron right on his huge head. Right between the eyes. He deserves it.
The other Pierre has really come up looking like such a fool in his team analysis. He should stop kissing butt for a GM job and pay attention to what is going on between the nets. Everything is about Vancouver Calgary, I do have alot of respect for the others who present a good critique of most teams, However Powerful Pierre is so bias with his analogies.
I just feel bad for our Canadian brothern who have to listen to that jag on a nightly basis. It's horrible. It's such a bias way of announcing, that I just dont' see how he doesn't catch more crap. Especially for a supposedly non biased, national telecast.
I understand the analysis of Huet. He drills it home EVERY SINGLE TELECAST that Huet plays, but is it due to the fact that he's bitter since Huet was an ex Montreal player? I mean it's ridiculous. I get it Pierre. Huet is vunerable high, and you don't think he can win a cup. Got it. Move on to something else.
Same holds true for hatred for the hawks. It's obvious. He hates them because they are young, and cocky. He hates them because they apparently used racial slurs against Iginla even though Buff, the last time I checked, was black. He hates them because they rattled the great Roberta, and destroyed the Canucks. He was pulling hard for Detroit in the WCF.
It would be nice, like I stated over and over again, if ESPN could get back involved and get Thorne back on. I can even handle Clement at this point. But please, keep Pierre north of the border........
Although I won't throw Huet under the bus . . .
I DO think Niemi is the guy the Hawks really like . . . you just hear too many things in what the players and coaches say about him. And they wouldn't mind at all having him win the #1 job from Cristo. You watch Niemi and he's twice the athlete Cristo is. Cristo is a positional goalie, a "blocker". So's Crawford, but Huet's much better than he is.
But that said, I will disagree strongly with Wiz on Crawford being the backup. It makes a LOT more sense to actually keep Huet until the deadline or even into the offseason, and I'd MUCH rather have him (or Manny Legace or Manny Fernandez) as my backup in the playoffs than Crawford.
With all due respect, Wiz, it would be a colossal mistake to go into the playoffs with a good chance of going all the way with a likely career AHL goalie as your backup.
I predicted Niemi would take Huet's job as the number one before xmas. I realize one game means very little in the big picture but now the pressure is on Huet to prove he is number one and when he get in this position he usually struggles. Not to worry though Hawk fans because Niemi will come to the rescue if needed. The bottom line is Huet is a fading star and Niemi is a rising star so it is pretty obvious it is just a matter of time before Anti Niemi gets to shine.
Good post Hawkeye1. I agree, Huet just doesn't seem to have the reflexes when compared to Niemi. He's all about proper positioning but he's slower when having to make quick adjustments. One thing this franchise has proven since the changes were made at the top is they won't stand for mediocrity, or anything or anybody that drags the business down. If there is a way to cut their losses with Huet, they'll find it.
We can only hope that Huet has a better season than most of us think he is going to have. I'd be surprised if the Hawks were able to move him and his contract. Even if they can find a taker for Huet I would think the Hawks would have to bring in a experienced goalie to take his place. It would be expecting a lot from two rookies to handle the load in goal for a team that is expected to go deep in the playoffs.
as soon as Niemi completely replaces Huet.
and that might be sooner than we think........
Would have been funny if they stopped in France and told Huet to go get some food or something in the airport, and then leave his bags at the door and take off....and just play the rockford kids in net.
Sharp: "Hey! Look, Cristobal! The Eiffel tower!"
Huet: "Zeh Eiffel towaire?"
SKKKRRREEECCCHHH!!! Team van speeds off.
Huet: "Ah, sacre bleu!"
I keep wondering if this may happen too.
plus unless Niemi convinces Bowman Sr that he is Ken Dryden incarnate (& Scotty will know having coached Dryden), there is little chance that a team expecting to be taken seriously as a contender for the cup experiments going with an unproven rookie goalie, (much less two of them) going into the playoffs - see Carey Price & Varlamov for recent examples of why.
They give Huet at least to the end of October to determine the next step, whether it is
1.doing nothing (Huet stays fresh in the spotlight & responds well under pressure),
2. giving Niemi more action (Huet plays reasonably well, except in the 2nd half of back to backs, etc.) or
3. pressing 1 on the speed dial & connecting with Garth Snow to tell him to keep the hawks in mind before he makes any move on one of his surplus goalies & to get an idea of what he's looking for in return (Huet stumbles badly, costing the team needed, winnable points & loses their confidence AND Niemi looks overmatched against tough opponents).
Crawford won't be in Chicago this year unless there is an injury. If Huet gets hurt and is out for a lengthy time that might go past the trade deadline, i think the hawks acquire a veteran for insurance, sooner rather than later.
Detroit might have been able to get away with mediocre goaltending to go deep into playoffs & win a cup, but the current hawks aren't comparable yet to those older, experienced wings teams they want to become like. And after watching detroit lose twice to St. Louis this weekend, the wings (among others) will be competing with the hawks in shopping for goaltending.
Anaheim went with Hiller over a proven Stanley Cup winner (Giguere) and didn't regret it at all last year. So there goes that unproven rookie theory.
I still say, if Niemi can take the job (possible, but not guaranteed at all), you keep Huet around. he's better than 95% of the backups in the league. And much better than Crawford.
Then you deal with Cristo in the offseason.
The two teams I could see dealing for him in-season are Washington or Montreal, and that's assuming Halak beats out Price (possible, but not guaranteed) and Theodore beats out Varlamov. Because in either case:
- you have guys on the bench who see themselves as number ones and you might not want in the dressing room
- both teams had generally positive experiences with Huet when he was there and have openly expressed regret at losing him
Or a contending team that has some disastrous goalie injuries and the dollars can be worked out (injury exemptions, throw-ins, etc)
"Then you deal with Cristo in the offseason.
The two teams I could see dealing for him in-season are Washington or Montreal"
Stop it right there lol
let me get this straight...
Gainey is now going to pay Huet, the same vet UFA he dumped when his habs were riding 1st overall in the east in favor of two raw rookies (price & halak) because he refused to meet Huet's demands then (& lost with rookie price to marty biron & the flyers in the 2nd round)???
& Washington, who could (& should) have eliminated the pens in the quarters last year, but didn't because varlamov was a rookie who looked the part, especially in game 7 of that series, are now going to go after a guy who rejected being the #1 on their young, promising team in favor of more money with the hawks & ended up being a backup to waived khabi & then couldn't beat out a hawks rookie for the #1????
sorry, that is a bit too far out there for me.
get used to having huet's contract hanging around chitown for this year & next, especially if he starts sucking...no one in their right mind is going to pay that kind of money for a "backup" goalie. the only remedy then would be buyout, but that still involves a cap hit, not to mention a lot of Rocky's dough down the tubes.
I guess Tallon made another mistake huh?
ps - Hiller lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs last year - if niemi were to do the same, I think that would fall far short of your (& many others) expectations for the hawks this season.
They didn't lose because of him. And you know that. They got as far AS THEY DID mostly because of him.
Most likely scenario is Huet and Niemi are the tandem here, but Huet could easily end up being #2.
But also don't rule out the possibility of him getting dealt in some manner. It could happen, Probably won't, but could.
As for the Caps and Montreal, whether it's too far out for you doesn't matter. There are people associated with both those franchises that regretted seeing Huet go. Doesn't mean they'll deal for him. But you never know. Depends on what's asked for in return and what all the factors are.
Buyout is the most likely possibility as time goes on. But it is way too early regardless to say Huet won't deliver, to your point.
which was a great achievement for him but he wasn't even a rookie, he appeared in 23 games the year before in addition to 46 regular season games last season and was 27 years old, but to think he was the main reason they got that far is deluding yourself when they had players like pronger, niedermayer & beauchemin, getzlaf, perry, ryan, etc. - at least 12 previous cup winnners in that room.
its funny to the point of being laughable that you think the hawks have a legit shot at the cup with a raw rookie niemi based on hiller almost making it to the 3rd round on a veteran team with tons of recent cup winners on it.
my point that rookie goalies don't win cups (other than the very rare exceptions like dryden & roy) still stands - bowman knows it & knows that it is very, very unlikely that he'll have two of them in his career.
Cam Ward for Carolina
Dryden in 71,
Roy in 86
Ward in 06...
at that rate, the next time a rookie goalie will lead his team to a Cup will be in 2031. In other words, he likely isn't even born yet!
I don't think Chico followed through on this one. Hiller was the main reason they got Detroit to 7 games and got past San Jose. He didn't implode. Yes, Anaheim bodied both those teams, but Hiller was just as important.
The Caps goalie on the other hand, he got shelled in game 7 vs Pittsburgh.
I don't know if Crawford can play in this league but this coaching staff just doesn't believe in him and the only way we're ever going to know if he can play is if he plays for another team. If I was him I'd want out as fast as possible. Another year in the AHL can only hurt him at this point. He's been a good soldier up to now but he has got to be frustrated.
Who would you rather have in your organization today: Crawford or Craig Anderson?
A buddy of mine (who was Anderson, Wiz and Buff's agent at the time) told me when they drafted Crawford, he couldn't carry Anderson's jockstrap.
He was right. Dale fell in love with Crawford on some bad judgment or some bad advice and they let Anderson go because Crawford was "their guy for the future."
My buddy also told me back in '03 if Byfuglien ever got his act together he could be a great NHL player.
And what would you rather have, Huet or $5.6M in cap space? Signing Huet made no sense last year, other than the Hawks had the cap space and Tallon was trying to save a job. Really, the worst thing to happen last offseason was the combination of Tallon trying to save his butt, that cap space available, and guys like Campbell and Huet (who really don't merit the contracts they got other than right place, right time) being the most attractive UFAs out there. Now they have a question mark in net, an expensive defenseman who, while definitely providing the all-important talent of moving the puck up the ice in this NHL, clogs up the cap when they have to find the cap space for the Kane-Toews-Keith trio.
If Huet does not pan out, the Hawks will be in a very difficult position due to lack of cap flexibility, in a year when more than one media outlet is picking them to win it all. For us long suffering fans, a short-sighted decision that kills them in the end would be tough to swallow when it's obvious the Hawks have a real chance to actually win a Cup.
So while you can blame the Hawks (specifically McDonough) for the way they handled the Tallon firing, Tallon made plenty of mistakes that could cost the Hawks a Cup in the near future.
"Tallon made plenty of mistakes that could cost the Hawks a Cup in the near future."
And just who do you think got the Hawks to the point where they could contend for the Stanley Cup in the first place?
scabby, you then must also be a fan of Jim Hendry's work. There's a world of difference between contending and actually winning a championship. Was Tallon that finisher? I don't believe so, just my opinion.
Without him, the power play goes back to StinkTown, and there's no WCF last year or high hopes this year.
Did Dale overpay for him? Probably somewhat. But what value do you place on the #1 PP in the playoffs last year.
No power play, no good team. Fact.
Think anyone else on the team runs the PP half as well? Really? Who?
Huet was the best FA goalie, not just last offseason, but THIS offseason too. Look at what was available. They anticipated losing Khabibulin. Why? Because he's getting old and injury prone and until last year pretty much stunk in Chicago. Did Dale overpay for Huet? Probably. But rumor has it Ken Holland offered him $4 million per. And the Caps wanted to keep him too.
I am in the minority that says he is not at all a bad goaltender. But I also want the Hawks to have the best they can have. We'll see. They might still look smart for signing him. He's played like what 4 games thus far including preseason this year?
I know this may pain some, but I think the reason they signed Huet last season was watching Khabibulin break down and then seeing Lalime play very well in the stretch run when they pushed hard for the 8th spot in 2007-08. So Tallon signs Huet, and then tries to deal Khabibulin who interested no one.
Now, we all know how that turned out when Khabibulin stepped up huge last year, but they didn't just blow money on Huet for no reason. Tallon overvalued the trade market for Bulin, and that's why they were stuck with close to 13 million tied into goalies last year.
Is Huet the guy? Who knows? He is very slow to react and just relies on positioning and waving his arms on shots up high. Hopefully, he can shoulder the load. If not, I would prefer they give Niemi or Crawford a shot, before going after a Biron or Rolson. Lets see if they have a solution inhouse before panicking and getting a journeyman goalie.
As far as Campbell goes, you are correct. Without him, the PP is back to the dump and chase days. Don't think so? Watch who tries to run the point without Campbell. It's a joke. Maybe he is overpaid, but this wasn't a hot spot for free agents 2 years ago, and like Tim S stated, it was the worst kept secret in the NHL how badly Tallon coveted Campbell.
And I agree on your assessment of Huet's style. A positional keeper. One of his advantages also is he is big in the net. Bottom line on all this though, the better Niemi plays, the better the overall situation is for the Hawks. In fact, if he DID become #1, then the Hawks' situation is almost exactly like Anaheim's, which I don't think is bad at all.
The other thing to remember about Niemi is he is 26 years old, not 22. And he had pro experience in Finland before coming here.
They obviously overpaid for both huet & campbell & Hossa & sopel & barker, etc., etc. (a few more Tallon "mistakes"), but I'm open to see how Huet responds now that he is the clear #1 on a team with high expectations.
Tallon deserved to be fired for cap mismanagement (having to dump 2nd line center lang's salary at camp leaving a hole he later had to fill) & lack of proven winning experience. He might have been able to identify talent (tho gets too much credit for drafting top 3 picks kane & toews), but he mostly threw as much (or more) money as it took to sign FAs & guys acquired from other organizations (sopel, sharp, versteeg, etc.) which will hurt the hawks cap room for a long time & next year in particular with the big 3 plus ladd & hjalmarsson.
they could extend the big 3 now, but don't have the cap room to offer them what they might get (see Kessel) & Keith can make a strong case he deserves more (see Campbell).
the window for keeping the young core together to go for a cup might be this year, thanks to Tallon & co's overly generous bloated contracts to non "home grown" players, which is eerily reminiscent of the bad old days.
a player's agent thinks his guy is better than the other guy!! who would ever dream of that? sorry, but you walked into that one.
Anderson (or is it Andersson?) played well last year in Florida as a backup (took over starting for a time when vokoun stumbled & ran with it) but he's never been a bona fide #1 for a full season anywhere yet in terms of workload & has never made the playoffs.
it is easier to be a low cost backup on a bad team - less expectation & pressure. it remains to be seen how he does as a #1 who can deal with the pressure of heavy workload & high expectations, tho in colorado, there are low/no expectations & budaj to share the worload with.
obviously, I'm not defending Tallon - I don't believe he ever really understood what it took to build a winner, but he simply went with the younger, cheaper & more highly ranked crawford when anderson failed to become the miracle who could make Tallon look good.
I neglected to mention the guy played goalie in the OHL (Guelph) and the IHL (Saginaw), was the GM of Plymouth (OHL) and has probably forgotten more about hockey than you or I know.
So.
Anderson can play. And Crawford still blows.
I really have no faith at all in Huet. Perhaps we could have sent him to Rockford and kept Crawford and Niemi. However, it is too early to do that yet but maybe before the season is up. Huet has not changed his style. He still gives up to many rebounds and goes down too soon exposing the top of the net. These same problems have plagued him in Montreal and Washington. Also, his confidence is questionalble which resuts in key goals when the game is on the line. I do feel sorry for him however, we can not afford to bring him along with his inflated salary. To early yet but hopefully Bowman can fix this before Christmas. This type of situation is a killer for team moral and although the guys would never say so they must be feeling let down especially after 55 shots against Florida. They worked their buts off only to be let down. This can happen a couple of times but if it continues it will wreak havoc in the dressing room. I believe Huet has been given every opportunity not only in Chicago but in Washington and Montrea and he will not get any better. I think the businees approach to hockey that the Hawks have adopted would conclude if someone is not keeping up then it is time to cut the chaffe.
When Savard was coach the top brass reacted swiftly because they felt Denis could not take the team to the next level.
Surely they can see the same with Huet as starter. He's not the goalie and like you've pointed out, Hawkeye, it hurts the teams swagger when you question if your goalie will stop the puck for your team.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Niemi won the backup job but he could also take the starters job because its there if he wants it bad enough.
Niemi would be a upgrade over Huet but the one thing that concerns me is the Blackhawk marketing I'm seeing. Huet's meek beek is plastered firmly, front and center in the comcast ad's and "monsters" ad's for the "Faces of the Blackhawks". Didn't management see what we were seeing last season when Huet played? Shouldn't they have approached their marketing as though Huet would be on a short leash and therefore shouldn't been seen standing in front of Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa and Keith? If anything, it should have been a faceless cardboard cutout of a goalie with a question mark where the face is. What happens to those expensive commercials if Niemi, JS Giguere or someone else becomes our starting goalie by Thanksgiving?