Do Hawks need a legitimate tough guy?

After reading todays Sunday Sports Edition of the Daily Herald, I feel obligated to comment on "SteveP" and his post regarding Enforcers.
The Pittsburg Penguins employed the services of Georges Laraque and Eric Godard respectively their last 2 runs to the Stanley Cup Finals, Godard's still on the team. Detroit's Stanley Cup winners had Darren McCarty on last years roster and even lured Joey Kocur out of retirement one year. This years Red Wing team signed Brad May. The 2007 Champion Ducks had George Parros, May, Shawn Thornton and Chris Pronger. The 2006 Edmonton Team that went to the Finals had Laraque and Pronger as well.
To say there is no room in "todays game" for these types of players clearly isn't watching todays game.

I agree with the posts that having an enforcer is going to stop that hit on Toews. That is how hockey is played. Willie Mitchell is not concerned about the hawks having an enforcer - that hit is going to happen. The game has changed. The instigator penality changes many things. Instead of the enforcer you need the athletic, large, fast fore-checker that will physically punish the other team. Stick up for a teammate once in a while. We miss Eager and Burish. To be honest - if Skille would change his expectations - he could potentially play this role.

What is Dan Hinote doing?

I think that right now everything the Hawks do is based on the cap situation. Adding toughness, Goalie, guys from Rockford are all in flux based on what s going on with the cap as we all know. We are short on toughness after losing our 2 toughest guys to injury but certainy think we can ride out the storm at this point. The David Koce type of guys have no place on this team and we do not need them..The Red Wings have ruled without one for many years now and they seem to have done just fine.

So here is my cap question as I continue to struggle at understanding the deal. Hockeybuzz.com currently shows about 10 teams presently over the cap including the Hawks who are $4 million+ over. My question is do teams have until the last game of the year to get cap current? Do you just need to, at some point, stop spending so you are not over the cap? I know thirdman.com says some of this money might be in bonus stuff that might not be met but I am still unclear what the Hawks actually need to do for this not to be a problem this year.

I think the Hawks are hurting when it comes to the toughness of the overall team. When Burish and Eager went down, the team became a lot weaker. Opposing teams know they can punish the Hawks physically without much in return. I enjoy watching players like Versteeg coming to the aid of Jonathan Toews but i think the Hawks need to sign a fourth line grinder/tough guy to watch out for our many superstars.

Personally, I'm more than a little tired of seeing our skilled defensemen watch the other team slap loose pucks into our net unchallenged and our feisty forwards getting bullied after the whistle as the rest of the team looks on.

We can pretend that fighting and fighters aren't necessary simply to justify not having one, but it's clear to me that describing this team as "tough" in any capacity is a very liberal definition of the term.

Face it Hawk fans: our team is soft. No one fears or respects the Hawks when they don't have the puck--and it shows. Do we REALLY believe it's a coincidence that our star players get run all the time?

I will not praise Versteeg for going after Mitchell any more than I care to credit Kane for defending himself with stick fouls last year. It plays into the other teams' game plan and takes these valuable players off the ice physically and out of the game mentally.

Why acquire a guy who can fight? So guys like Steeger won't have to.

Granted, no team, especially this cap-hugging one, needs a goon-for-hire, which is fine because they don't really exist anymore. Only the anti-fighting, crusading Bettmanites fail to distinguish between today's tough guys from yesterday's goons and believe guys who can (and like to) fight are by definition, incapable of playing the game. Anaheim won a Cup with a bucketload of "modern-day" enforcers, and Calgary's fourth line, one of the league's best so far this year, is also chock full of 'em.

Eager and Burish don't really scare anyone, but they were sufficient in this capacity.
And clearly, they are missed

The hit on Toews would have happened one way or another. There is literally no advantage to having one of those heavy-weight can't handle the puck, take bad penalty thugs in the lineup. It doesn't prevent anyone from hitting your players, running your goalie, etc. Last night, the Hawks played their most physical game of the young season. Buff was a one man wrecking crew and tossed his weight around in the corners more than once. The penalty at the end of the first was BS, by the way. Seems the whenever the Hawks have scrums with the Canucks the advantage always goes to Vancouver. One example, think back to the last regaular season meeting where all 5 players on each side got into it and Keith had his hair pulled on. The Canucks somehow came away with a 5-3. Last night the Defencemen takes out Luongo, 3 Canucks come after Buf in retribution and he pushed back and gets called... I don't know how it wasn't a match penalty. Ladd nailed Kesler 2-3 times and overall, it was a pretty good game physically. JT didn't seem him coming, the hit was clean and hit got rocked, it's nothing but bad luck for JT. He is young and sounds like he is recovering. We'll send the Canucks packing again in the post-season either way. :P

I don't know if they need a Boogard or Laracque type, but take a look at what happened in the Calgary game. Brouwer was really asserting himself as a physical presence in that game, hitting everything in sight. Iginla saw what was happening, and challenged him right off a draw. Loved seeing him do that. Sends a message to his team and the Hawks. Is there anyone on the Hawks roster that can make someone on the other team accountable? It doesn't appear so right now.

All the talk if the Hawks need an enforcer, who is available? List the names of tough guys that can play a regular shift, can fight well, and can be attained? They are valuable players and because of that there aren't many available, if any. I liked Orr and Rupp in the offseason but at that time both Eager and Burish were around. Now into the season who are we supposed to get?

timmy, ask 1 question, would al secord,curt fraser,behn wilson,gary nylund,bob probert,ect. allow your captian to get rung up in your own building? the answer is a resounding NO!!!, do we need an enforcer, someone that can play 8-10 minutes a game? YES!, fans,understand we wouldn't be having this talk if burrish and eager were healthy, but they are not, so we need to adress this issue. eager is 1 good knock to the head from being knocked out of hockey.please!! dowell! yeah right! all those stupid penalties came after the hit because we didn't have 1 sheriff riding shotgun to call out willie mitchel the next time he was on the ice! and clean hit or not ,if willie mitchel is a stand up guy, realizing what he did, he would "answer the bell". do any of you remember the brad may interview last year when he did something similar, and he said he knew "it was coming the next time on the ice" and, right off the faceoff,i forgot the opponent, but they "dropped them"fair and square,and brad may had total respect for the situation and accepted that.this is respect for the game,take away the instigator penalty, you will see alot of that clean up. let the players police the game. i have repect for brad may and wish he was wearing the indianhead instead of the wheel.no excuses, game has changed ect, bottom line is you don't let your captian get rung up in your own building, clean hit or not, late in the game ect....the hawks have a ton of skill, but lack toughness, and i hope stan bowman addresses that issue before these guys hit the road for the west coast swing in nov.,where the home coaches get the last change and you will see more of that type of play. yes it was a clean hit,but it should be addressed accordingly. kudo's to versteeg but come on,and brouwer scares realy no one. i don;t have the answers but i'll ask the question. can derek boogard play 8-10 minutes a game? you bet ya! laraque, colton orr? yes. there's a thought stan! toronto probably would talk to you, garnett execlby, colton orr, ect. lastly, the 5 players i named in the beginning could all "play the game too!" so yes wake up stan, this isn't a no check league at johnny's ice house, it is the NHL! we need to get a legitimate tough guy,even in today's game!!

Tough guys who score 30+ goal guys with 200+ minutes do not grow on trees. Our team is built for the new NHL. That being said, team toughness is only a reality if somebody steps up. Bottom line is that someone could have stepped up and nailed a Canuck legally and sent a message back. No head shots, no elbows, no sticks, just a clean hard hit that knocked them silly. No need for a staged fight either. That doesn't do anything especially if your guys eats his lunch. I agree with a lot of the others that if your skill guy gets taken out, then it's game on for one of their skill guys. They will think twice before going into a corner or coming through the neutral zone.

Best points made are how a legit enforcer only winds up fighting the other teams enforcer. Any legit heavy can't go after the guy who hit our skill guys. If Versteeg laid out somebody, and boogard came after him and pummeled him, he'd not only get an instigator, but also tarnish his rep. We all know that a legit enforcer going against a smaller guy and whooping him is lame. Best way to get back at them is to hit them back.

Every team has skill guys they don't want getting run. Make it a point to hit them. Nothing illegal, but hit them. There are plenty of legal opportunities that can be had during every game. Sure, may put yourself out of position and lead to chances, but HIT EM! Pound the sedins. Here's a question, if that was seabrook coming out of the box, do you think he would have laid out sedin or the like, or would he have high tailed it back trying to get into d posiiton. Makes me think its a team philosophy/game plan.

Ben Eager is out with a concusion and most likely wont be getting in too many fight when he comes back...whenever that is. Burrish is out for the year with the knee injury and Walker is no longer with the team. Two of these three guys led the team in PIM last year and the other was fourth on the team.

So since last year this team has gotten smaller and more skilled, but also a lot less tough.

So yes they need something.

While it sounds good in theory, in practice the "tough guy" is rarely a deterrent since he ends up fighting the other team's tough guy in a very predictable brawl.

Better to have a few hockey players who are ready to scrap when needed, and return hard, legitimate hits.

Burke Toronto team has big Komiisarek, Exelby Schenn, on the backline and Mayers & Orr up front.

It certainly helps to get feistier, but don't I recall last years Leafs as a really fiesty scratch at them bunch that was smaller?

So you cannot just say poof, we got this and that and we are changed.

We need to address Eager and Burish out of the linep, Ebbet and Kopecky don't cut it

the 4th line of Eager, Burish and Fraser was a force against the nuckleheads last year, sorely missed them last night

I blame Q entirely. How does he not send the 2 defensemen when Buff is back there in a scrum taking on 3 Nucks? Not too mention Kane is back there getting shoved around by a Swede! Our 2 D are standing at the dots with their chins on their sticks! If the coach sets the tone there, perhaps we've got a different result. Wait, let's make sure we keep the face off in their end in exchange for Buf using a half a game's worth of energy and Kane getting ragged. Good move, Q.

As far as us needing an enforcer, we don't. Eager does just fine as he showed last March vs the Nucks. Q needs to recognize THESE particular games though. Call up someone for Nucks, Flames, Blues and a few others. We don't need Laraque for Preds, Stars etc.

I blame Q for all of last night.

This team is a smallish highly skilled team that should make a huge run in the playoffs.

But during the season some other teams will make a point to go after the Hawks smaller players knowing that not one single guy on the Hawks can do anything about it. Yes a very few guys might be willing to stand up to it, but what is the use of getting your head beat in and loose a fight after one of your guys gets roughed up.

The Hawks need to either get more team size and toughness (which will be hard to do at this point) or a player that they can play when they go up against teams that play an agresive checking style. Its easier to get that 1 tough guy than build team toughness.

Last night Kane was being slaped around and Buff couldn't do anything about it. Later after the clean hit on Toews the Hawks should have made the point that even though it was a clean hit they (the Hawks) will not allow you to target their best players.

I don't think the Hawks need a guy in the mold of Derek Boogard. When they have Eager and Burish, those guys are good enough to play regularily and fast enough, that they can lay the wood to the other teams best player. There are a lot of guys like Matt Cooke that like to take boarderline hits but not fight. The equalizer is being able to hit the other teams best players. I have no problem with Mitchell's hit. He did it fair and square and that is hockey. Instead of looking for blood from Mitchell, who with his style has spilled his fair share, hopefully we should be able to take it from Sedin. A few clean hard hits to him (or them when both are healthy) sends a clear message that we will hunt just as much. I don't like to see Toews or any of our players hurt but what good is it to go after someone who already is a fighter or is a tough customer, like Mitchell, when that is their game? Go after the big guys and make them feel the pain. Brouwer, Ladd, and Byfuglien are playing the body pretty heavy but that is about it. Fraser is willing but too slow to get there, Ebbett is willing (it looks like) but is tiny, and really no one else is doing it with any authority. Maybe having someone like Dowell instead of Fraser will make a small difference (Dowell is much faster and just as willing as Fraser). Other then that we need a Ben Eager minus the concussion history, and future probably.

Great attitude by Versteeg to go after Mitchell. We really lost our composure and our game after that hit though.

I understand the importance of having a goon, because ultimately teams will continue to take liberties with Kane, Sharp, Toews, Hossa, Campbell, Keith...etc. It's funny that a little piece of crap like Samuelsson, waits until the pile moves away before he starts rail-roading Kane more. What a classless, gutless waste. I saw Buff try to get him, and on 11/22, somebody on this team in the first few minutes should run that jerk, or Roberto, or one of the sisters. Run them, start a fight, and send a message to Vancouver that this will stop. Vancouver continues to do this to the Hawks. THey did it to Wisniewski a couple of years ago, they pulled Keith's hair last year, and now we have this.....When does it end?

As far as a goon goes...well....what happens for the 90% of the time that you DO NOT need him. Who does he replace in the lineup? Is he going to be skilled enough to keep up with the 4th line, not be a defensive liability, not take stupid pentalies, etc? THis isn't the rock'em sock'em age of the late 80s early 90s when brawls would break loose on a whim. You can't afford to dress a guy like this, and answer me this one question....for all the years with Detroit....who stood up for them recently? I know they added Brad May, but before that....what "goon" did they have? How did they protect Lidstrom, Hossa, Yzerman, Datysuk, Zetterberg, etc?

THe Hawks either need one of their bigger guys to grow a pair, and take care of these situations, or find a guy with some skill. But to add a goon to add one, doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe little spoiled Stan Bowman, should ask his daddy what stay at home defenseman they can trade for instead of picking up everyone else's pile of crap at forward? How about that? If I have to see Cam Barker get smoked every night all year long, or cough up the puck, or get caught pinching because he's hockey retarded....I may need professional help.

Since we've had a legitimate heavy in a Hawks uni. It wasn't that long ago that we had at least 1 (sometimes 2 or 3) of these guys. Yes, they do need to be able to skate and chip in offensively.

Yes, the game has changed and speed and agility are more important now than ever. However, you've GOT to have a guy or two like this on your team who can show the other team that taking runs at our skilled players is NOT going to be tolerated.

Am I mad at Willie Mitchell for the hit on Toews? Absolutely not. He did what he was supposed to do and it was clean. He could have blown him up much worse.

Am I mad at Steeger for jumping in and protecting his captain. Absolutely not. Sure, Steeger isn't the biggest guy but he plays the game the right way. It was the right thing to do. Steeger's last year in the AHL he racked up quite a few PIM's showing he's not afraid to get his nose dirty.

Seabrook plays hard and will drop the mitts but he does that at the right time. Also, we don't need him turning into the enforcer when he's on our top duo of D-men.

Buff will NEVER turn into this type of player. He simply does not have the mean streak to get the job done.

Maybe at some point in the future Aliu or Beach (although Beach isn't exactly a heavy) could provide that abrasive style of play.

Burish is an agitator but he's not an enforcer. As far as Eager goes, I like his desire and his wheels but he was laughed out of Philly. None of the heavy's in that conference respected Eager as they knew he wasn't in their class.

The Hawks need to go out and get one of these guys and make a statement to the rest of the league. If they don't, you're going to see guys continue to take runs at our stars and we'll be cringing every time hoping they're not on the way to IR.

It was a clean hit. Why is there the need to relatiate for a clean hit? Maybe Toews should learn to keep his head up. Fill the 'tough guy' role with Versteeg? HAHAHAHA. Too bad he will be traded after the season so Kane, Toews, and Keith can be resigned. Then he will be the one running at your star players. Figure out your goalie situation first, then address other needs.

Last night when Byfuglien tried to help out Kane at least three canucks tried to rough him up. It was embarrassing to see three Canucks crowding around him and taking swings at him and not one hawk came within 5 feet of that!!!

Eddie "O" the league rah rah boy didn't even mention it!!

To me that is unacceptable behaviour on the part of the Blackhawks. When someone is getting roughed up by 3 opponents the least some of them can do is get involved.

To top it off, Byfuglien was the only one to get a penalty!!!!

Is this the result of Bettman's "sissy" rules or are the Hawks borderline wimps!

I'm hoping it's the former!

The thing about Eager and Burish is they kept the other teams busy as agitators. Sure they could use a legit tough guy but they don't grow on trees and they are almost extinct. Koci was pounded by Boogard last night....I'll say this I'd rather see Dowell up and in the lineup over Ebbett....