Leafs' Burke hasn't talked to Hawks
Talk about an overreaction.
A blogger writes the Blackhawks are on the verge of making a major trade, citing a reliable source, and all heck breaks loose Wednesday.
I think somebody needs to check his reliable source.
Toronto defenseman Tomas Kaberle is the player the Hawks are supposed to covet. Who wouldn't want Kaberle, a terrific defenseman and a power-play quarterback? The Hawks need both.
But how's this for a reliable source: Maple Leafs general manager Brian Burke, who said in an e-mail to the Toronto Sun and relayed to the Daily Herald about Wednesday's rumor, "No legs. Have never discussed Kaberle with either team."
That other team would be the Carolina Hurricanes.
Maybe the Hawks will make a trade sooner or later for a defenseman, but for right now they want to get Jonathan Toews, Marian Hossa and Ben Eager healthy and take it from there.
Ill keep further trade talk to myself as Brian Burke has screwed me over for the last time!!!!
But seriously, there are no experts and people in the know...just educated guesses!!! Talking Blogs and anyone else out of the exclusive NHL front offices!
I for one will not comment or discuss rumors...just saying as this is the BS i hate that includes Brian Campbell or Huet or Barker or anyone else that has been slammed on this board!
PS rem the last 15 years when we sucked????
Just another Wednesday practice sure got entertaining. Burke can deny all he wants but that doesn't mean that a trade won't happen this weekend. Or in January or before the trade deadline. Toronto is potentially a great trade partner as they have one or two guys the Hawks would like to have, the Hawks have one or two guys the Leafs would like and might be available, and Toronto is an Eastern Conference team so anyone the Hawks trade to them won't come back to bite the Hawks on the ass 4-12 times a year for the next 5-10 years.
GM's will occasionally pull a rabbit out of a hat when you least expect it (Hawks get Hossa, Sox get Rios....and Peavy) but I think the Hawks are going to wait until they get Hossa and Toews together for a while to see how it changes the dynamics of the team before they go making any deals. Getting those two top line guys in the lineup moves second and third line guys back where they belong, helps the PP, improves leadership, adds MIA scoring and more.
Either way, until the Big 3 get signed expect a lot more of this sort of chatter.
I will start by saying I am not in the know. I don't have sources or anything like that, although I wish I did. Just to ask them questions about various players and such would be just great.
I would think that Gms would talk about players all the time. Not necessarily in trades but rather in general. A guy is doing well in this role, another player could be used in another role, and maybe if you want to talk about this player in trade give me a call. I would guess that is how most trade rumors start. I would also think that most GMs would have different opinions about players on their teams and other teams.
So we look at our players and our own personal bias either makes them more or less then what they actually are. Personally, I am not a fan of Campbells. I understand he is valuable on the PP but I don't think he is anywhere worth his salary or ice time. Am I wrong? Maybe. Just like every GM I have an opinion. To a team like NYI Campbell could be worth the offense because they are losing a lot but offense brings in fans plus they have plenty of salary cap room. Point being unless we have confirmed sources (as some of you have) then it is all fun guessing as to what the Hawks will do.
Being a simple guy looking at cap figures I think the Hawks salary cap situation isn't as bad as some would make it out to be. Toews and Kane's CAP hit is near $3 million but their salary is closer to $1 million. Say they take the salary hit closer to Franzen (not exactly superstar but proven star) then they would make about $4-5 million. For each to get to that number then that is about the salary of John Madden (who has been great so far). Of course that leaves Keith. Again, in my opinion it is easy to just use Sopel's cap hit for that (as I am not a fan of Sopel either). Again the point is that there are ways to get people under the cap. Is that all our players? No. But you never know who will end up expendable at the end of the year. Just play this year to win the Cup and worry about next year when it comes. There could always be a deal that comes that helps both this year and with the cap in the future. Don't waste time worrying about trying to imagine deals that help this year and solve cap problems...that's what my nights are for.
Tim, I also have the upmost respect for you and Burke answers a lot of emails even from fans.
I believe Burke if he says Kaberle was never discussed, but NOT ever?
I also agree that the Hawks may not be feeling the "need" the fan base is, but unless Strachan in Ottawa is a complete liar, they tried to dump Campbell to Ottawa.
Why not try an email to him to verify?
Carolina IS looking to shake things up and are missing a Babchuk type PP guy.
Is that not Campbell?
There are plenty of eager vets in Carolina and elsewhere who would love to come to the Hawks for the run, even if it is a half year roster move.
Carolina losing so many has them in a snit and when you hear they are looking to shake things up, and the vet contracts there are less than Campbell's hit ,it is easy to see the the hawks feeling concern with both Toews head and Bolland's back to bring in a Brind'amour & others.
I will stand beside John take the hit as I printed the original "talking trade remark" on the blog prior to Jacukel and I was pretty confident that where I hear it wasn't a imaginary source either.
But are both Strachan and Bruce Garrioch imaginary sources on the supposed deal of Heatley for Campbell ? Might be the names were just thrown out there and the both Gms said no and move the talk elsewhere .
That may be the case with Carolina and hawks talking....
It doesn't hurt to ask who you have available and how you like my rw, etc.?
Doesn't mean immediate.
The same hold for Kaberle.
He may not be a Hawk now, but if he was at the trade deadline, Campbell would have to have a new home because Kaberle would be a replacement not supplement to the backline.
Toronto needs a Versteeg type guy too, but the hawks certainly will not sedn both Campbell and Versteeg to Leafs for Kaberle. That is how three team deals get done.
I am gonna ride this one out before I say there is not talk....
because in all your dealings, you KNOW GMs are telling you what is happening...
All we saw prior to SJ Shark Heatley was denials in San Jose , right?
As quick as things start they die, or maybe the legs were just feelers...
I don't believe I ever knocked down the Campbell-for-Heatley rumour, although the former Hawks GM and the present one both insist they never made that offer. You can believe them or not. As for Strachan and Garrioch, well, their track records on trades aren't the greatest, but they both have been around a long time and there's certainly the possibility of someone in the Senators' organization tipping them off.
Of course, Campbell makes a lot of money, but so what? How can the Hawks trade him at this point? Who plays defense then? There's nobody in the minors. Campbell helps the Hawks every night do what they do best, which is get the puck moving forward from the defense with speed.
As for Carolina, who do you want off that bad roster? Eric Staal, but that's not happening.
Of course the former GM would deny that offer, that would be an admission he overpaid for Campbell, and that decision, along with a few other of his decisions, but the Hawks in a real bind with the cap. The "so what" about him making a lot of money is the impact that contract will have on any moves that can be made this year, and who of next year's free agents can be re-signed.
I haven't seen you write much about the cap issues the Hawks have which will impact this season and next. I don't pretend to be a cap expert, but I did read what was written in The Hockey News in their recent issue that focused on the cap, about how the Hawks have some real tough decisions to make even this year because of the cap. In Brian Costello's article about the cap woes, he wrote:
"The Hawks got themselves into this mess by signing defenseman Brian Campbell and goalie Cristobal Huet to lengthy, overinflated deals averaging $7.14 and $5.62 million respectively. Then-GM Dale Tallon felt pressured to sign the UFAs in order to boost the team to the next level, a level they would have achieved had the deposed GM just stayed the course. The organization will rue the day it signed Campbell.
It's not that Campbell is a bad D-man. He's not in the league's top 20, but he brings a puck-rushing element to the table. Problem is, both Keith and Brent Seabrook are superior to Campbell and Tallon should've realized his dynamic young duo were set to become RFAs in 2010 and 2011. What does the team say when Keith and Seabrook start contract talks at Campbell's $7-million level? Sure hope new GM Stan Bowman knows the old soft shoe."
Tim, I get your point that there's nothing they can do about Campbell now, and hell, if they win a Cup this year, no one's going to care about cap problems next year. But will the Hawks pull a Cubs and only worry about this year, or will they be proactive and try to free up cap space this year so they have a chance to sign whoever they want to keep from the free agent group next year? If they do that, then they may lose a Versteeg, Barker, Sharp, or another key piece for draft picks or prospects, which will impact their chances this year. Or do you think Costello was off base with his whole article (if you read it or have access to it)?
Another thing in that issue of the Hockey News was where each team stands with the cap. There's a few teams out there that will have cap room to offer one or more of the Hawks big 3 big money. Overpay like Tallon did with Campbell and Huet.
Had he been traded for Heatley who would play defense?
My personal thought is I thought want this Hawk roster changed much and let the chips fall where they may.
That doesn't alter the fact that teams are talking.
Carolina's bad roster is pretty much the same one that was a Lord Stanley's final four similar to the Hawks. Was can Ward and Eric Staal for that finish?
So there has got to be some guys that play the team game well to get that far.
I think when Jacukel mentioned Toronto he didn't mean a 3 way deal as much as the Hawks actually had a plan, a replacing of Campbell and acquiring of end of the year contracts that had reasonable fits and no huge ones that go on forever.
Can we at least agree that unless an agreement in principal is in place with the big three Toews Kane Keith that they HAVE to be player movement, with the movement coming from either Campbell, Barker, Sharp, Versteeg, Buff, Bolland UFA Ladd, and Seabrook, and the last guy is probably untouchable and Bolland's back and lack of production until Hossa arrives anyway making him a little more difficult deal.
Re: Bolland. He, actually is the type of centre they need one more of. A guy who might score but is a healthy passer.
Another dominant pivot who got the puck to the scoring wingers might seal the deal on offense.
I think we know this group loses somebody or two or three somebodies. If you or I are GM's isn't that part of the plan something I have formulated by the Olympic break, and start discussions on before the summer?
The point is Carolina is on the phone, maybe not only to the Blackhawks as they are looking to od more than band aid that team to hold the fan base.
If there fortunes don't change fast, they be sitting on their hands in the eys of the fans after the final four showing last April.
Can't the GM there eb on the phone with hawks, even if they are chatting as the world turns?
I said nothing about a three-way deal.
They were two separate rumors, but I surmised there might be a cause and effect relationship between them because of the player/positions believed to be involved.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=24110
You might also want to go back and read the original blog. I think I was pretty clear in there that the rumored Kaberle deal might not go down until near the trading deadline and that the Hawks were in no hurry to do anything until they got healthy and saw what they have.
Just like you say above.
I'll man up and take my lumps. As you well know, I am said blogger. And nothing personal (at least from my end). I have the utmost respect for you regardless.
But let me ask you, when a GM gives a coach a "vote of confidence" does that always mean there is no agenda to fire him, or that he won't be fired?
What's Burke going to say: "yes, we intend to deal Kaberle?"
Maybe you have good info from another source that these rumors are bunk. I hope so in light of the subject you chose for this blog.
If so, mea culpa. And caveat emptor as far as me and this source.
FYI, my sources have been right before. I believe I had the Hossa signing before anyone else (from a source). Go back and check the time stamp on my message on my message board that day.
Do I know for certain that deal is going to happen or has been discussed? No. The source in this case has been right before. That's all I'll say on the matter. Time will tell.
Thanks
"the Hawks don't have to make Cap space until after the season"....
that i true If they don't want a deal done now.
It just makes a whole lot of sense they already have the core identified and KNOW very soon who is the trade bait so they can start discussing to discuss whomever they will be FORCED to move now, because LATER, the other teams basically know they have you over a Knabby barrel, am I right?
>Have you guys seen Giguere play this year?
>Has let in a ton of softies -- way more than Huet even
>Including 3 in one recent game
>No need to pull the trigger on anything at this time
Our future cap stickiness is a well-known problem. I don't see moving Beech or Aliu or none a'em. Buff has played himself off the block. Ladd I think is safe, too, though he's an RFA soon. You couldn't possibly trade a 40-goal potential like Sharp. Versteeg is the odd man. And you'll most likely not get an NHLer in return. A prospect and two picks, none higher than second round.
I understand the importance of Sharp, but he has been floating and invisible a LOT lately.
Versteeg.....I really think is going to haunt this team if they deal him. He has tremondous skill, vision, and plays with an edge. You can't teach the talent this guy has. Just a matter of time until he puts it all together.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.....why the blind eye to the great Dave Bolland? As a supposed 2nd line center, is 15 goals a year acceptable? Because what he's paying paid, he has to become a 60-70 pt a season guy. I know he's a decent 2 way player, but if this guy scores 20 this year....I'll eat crow. I'm not sold on him, and I would rather keep Sharp and Versteeg over this clown.
Nobody flourished more off of Marty havlat then Dave Bolland.
I like Kris, too, and if my memory serves Tallon traded Brandon Bochenski to get him!!!!!!
I wouldn't call him a clown to begin with. Also look what Havlat is doing so far this year. I have no disputes with saying Havlat is extremely skilled, probably the most skilled on the Hawks last year and in the tops in the league. I also say that Bolland was a great fit for Marty doing the dirty work and always being in the right spot. Bolland scored a lot of goals by being around the net and in position to score. Hockey sense. That can't be discounted.
Steve....good points. It's a tough one because they're both good players with a ton of upside. I don't want to part with either at this time but both have phat contracts that might be jettisoned to make cap room. At this time, I believe Sharpie makes $4 mil and change to Steeger's $3 mil and change.
Bolland is an underachiever and his play at times can be maddening. Too many lazy stick penalties etc...but as you say he's a good two way centerman who is still only in his 2nd full season with the club. He could still easily develop into a 20 g.....60-70 p guy, so i'd say don't give up on him just yet. Not to mention he was HUGE in the playoffs last year....very gritty and very clutch.
We all know the tenuous position the Hawks are in re: the cap and the stars we still have to sign......i'd much rather see Campbell or Barker go before any of the three forwards discussed herein. Fortunately, i don't have to make those decisions. Stan Bowman will really be forced to put his stamp on the team in the coming year. It should be interesting. We can't keep everybody obviously.
I agree philco. I'd rather see Campbell, Barker or Sopel go. Everyone that knows my posts for the last year know that for the first 75 games last year I couldn't stand Campbell. But I think he stepped it up in the playoffs and has played pretty well this year. BUT HE'S NOT WORTH 7.1 MIL PER YEAR! For a guy who doesn't play against the other teams top lines and who gets tons of power play time he should be putting up offensive numbers that top forwards do. And worse than Carrotop, Barker doesn't have the ability (or maybe the interest) to turn it up a notch. He must lead the league in losing the puck at the point. Can't believe we kept Stewie instead of Wiz, who by the way, has 9 points in 9 games with a plus 6 rating. Oh yea, he plays good defense too.
I think the parade of rumors has just begun....
With so many supposedly in the "know", and always trying to one-up the next guy, you have to think that these rumors will only become the norm around here. Especially, with everyone trying to be a capologist, and assuming the Hawks will trade guys because they have to.
It's not difficult to figure out who the Hawks core players are. It's also not that difficult to figure out that some guys were over paid (last summer, or as free agents) and thus will be shopped to free up cap room.
I'm just looking forward to seeing this team as close to full strength as possible.
Lot of talk about trading one of these two....but which one? Sharpie's a fantastic character guy and very responsible defensively. He's also a very popular member of the club and if you trade him you seriously mess with team chemistry.
Kris Versteeg has been a solid Hawk and was a true late bloomer that i believe Tallon plucked from Boston for Brandon Bochenski. He's been a valuable energy guy that can take over games when he's on....like he did last Friday vs the Habs. He still stickhandles far too much...makes dodgy plays in his own zone from time to time and i'd hate to lose him. But if it was a choice between the two i'd keep Sharpie.
Ideally, i'd love to see them send Campbell out of town on a rail but who would take that phat contract off our hands.
"Ideally, i'd love to see them send Campbell out of town on a rail but who would take that phat contract off our hands."
No offense intended Philco, but I don't think anything is "phat" about Campbell's contract
Definition of phat-Excellent; first-rate: phat fashion; a phat rapper.
can bloggers be phat?
dhbdad
The Blackhawks are in a poor position to make a trade right now. Like Tim said, the team is concerned about getting most of their missing players back into the lineup. Then, let's see...if we trade a prospect, Aliu and Markov aren't off to a great start, and Beach has to work on some things despite whatever his stat's are. Trading Olsen is a huge mistake; just don't make a deal, you have to keep some of your prospects and he is the best one and at a critical position. I said it before, and I don't know if it will be sooner or later that Bowman has to offer a sacrifical lamb. Due to the physical nature of the game and that other teams will intimidate or take advantage of a team that is small AND DOESN'T PLAY WITH AN EDGE, I say a good argument is for retaining Ladd & Big Buff. Maybe a Versteeg and or a Sharp goes in some sort of two for one deal....the idea being we get that defenseman or a goaltender or even a top offensive center in return. Maybe Bowman plays with the cap and with injuries...so that no big names move from Chicago until next June. And if you really think we are going to land a top goalie, tell me the asking price and what team would give up that goaltender? I mean, you can maybe trade for some guys who are descent, but how much better than Huet are they?
A veteran defenseman may be all we do at the trade deadline. The wild card could be Campbell...because I suspect Bowman isn't 100% a Campbell fan (recall, too, that he was not a Bowman sign). But does Campbell have to agree and is that going to make our great mobile defense no more than average compared to the rest of the league? One move I like is Volchenkov and Barker goes. But as for Barker, Steve from Chicago has a point...don't trade him too soon. He is, after all, on your third pair and his PP role means a lot. Note to Steve, IMO it is debatable how much better he may be after 300 or more gp. But right now, sure is nice when Seabrook & Keith get a rest because Barker is on the PP. Also, if Jacukel or anyone is up to it, would like to see your list of whom you like top to bottom of the plethjora of Coyote prospects. From Mueller and Handzel, to a handful of #1's & other on San Antonio farm club. I personally like Boedeker. Maybe one if not quickest on forecheck, a scorer in junior. I know some post people see west coast games and have opinion on Coyote players if they care to share their opinion.
The way he handles the puck, the shot, the body size and his passing cannot be taught. Things like when to pinch and defensive positioning can be taught. Barker is going to play in the league for 15 plus years.
The one undeniable statement in this blog is TimS who says there is nothing in the minors on D. All who have watched the Hogs have to agree.
We all are going to be upset soon because more than one of our favorite Hawk is going to be dealt or unsigned soon. The numbers just can't add up. Let's hope that among the pieces that return are a couple of 20-22 year old emerging defensemen because the franchise is just too thin there now.
Good points Hockeypuck. I'd still like to see a Giguere come here for Huet somehow even if it means we lose a Barker and a Versteeg for example. I think goaltender is still our weakest position. Bowman has to be feeling the same way. And since the Hawks like to emulate the Red Wings plus sign their free agents, you have to bet they'd like to beat Detroit to the punch for getting the likes of a JS Giguere.
If we like to emulate the Red Wings then we won't pay a lot for goaltending, Huet and Giguere are expensive. Pay the people to keep the puck at the other end of the ice and away from the goaltender (forwards and defensemen).