Hawks' depth is showing
You’ve got to have great depth to be successful on the kind of road trip the Blackhawks are on, which explains in large part how they’ve gone 5-2 with one more stop to make on Saturday night at Carolina.
Every Hawk except John Madden and Brent Sopel has chipped in at least 1 point on the road trip. In Thursday’s 4-3 win at San Jose, 10 different Hawks found their names on the score sheet.
Troy Brouwer is having a great trip and a great year. His 2 goals at San Jose, including the game winner in overtime, gave him 17. He has an outside chance to bag 30 for the season.
Brouwer is maybe the most improved Hawk from last season, particularly when it comes to his skating. He has been a perfect fit on the first line with Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane – skilled enough to play with them and willing to do the dirty work along the wall and in front of the net.
Here’s a breakdown of the scoring for the first seven games of the road trip.
Toews – 4 goals, 4 assists
Kane – 2 goals, 6 assists
Brouwer – 5 goals, 2 assists
Hossa – 3 goals, 3 assists
Sharp – 1 goal, 5 assists
Ladd – 2 goals, 4 assists
Keith – 1 goal, 4 assists
Campbell – 0 goals, 4 assists
Byfuglien – 2 goals, 0 assists
Eager – 2 goals, 0 assists
Fraser – 0 goals, 2 assists
Kopecky – 0 goals, 2 assists
Hjalmarsson – 0 goals, 2 assists
Versteeg – 0 goals, 1 assist
Barker – 0 goals, 1 assist
Seabrook – 0 goals, 1 assist
Are you crazy?
gm like brian burke that would know what to do with it! how would you guys like to have giggy in the net and phanuef on the back with our other big 3? it was certianly do able . brian burke, if he made this deal in oct. would be in it now. little stanley is in over his head??i hope it ain't kaberle comin' this way, i said before we already have enough p words on this team, please please let it be that burke got phanuef as a chip to trade to us for some scoring!! and dammmmm, i'm pissed about giggy! and i forgot where i read it, sharp for excelby, barker for grandpa o'donnell? are you high?!!
so that he could gift-wrapped Phaneuf to the hawks for our throwaways! I expect this sort of stuff on expansion fanboy blogs but not here.
If Phaneuf was earmarked to Hawks (via Calgary direct) , that would be basically mean they would not be re-signing Seabrook in a year, because there is no Cap sanity in that.
and I have trouble thinking Burke tarding for Phaneuf and a day or so later shipping him off. If that was gonna happen it would have happened on the spot and then it would take sending Campbell (trade appoval clause) in return, so snuff this train of thought, ok?
It is very interesting the different roads that the 2003 defenseman darfted have taken. Here I am at the draft telling Darryl Sutter that he should let Phanuef fall to the hawk, but the guy the Hawk does get is the improving guy, not the one whose career and efforts are going in the wrong direction....
and today Darryl will send Jokinen to Rangers for Higgins and Kotalik
wiz, who was it cam barker? the jokinen trade fell through as just said on xm 204, personally all this arm chair gm'n is nothing more than harmless fun,i gotta believe mcD and little stosh will make a huge splash at some point. john always has been one to do the biggest cannonball into the pool!
Are you talking about the hawks defenseman drafted in 2003?
It was Seabrook...my point here was Phaneuf, rated higher, tougher, meaner, stronger, and Brett Seabrook,who was injured for a lot of that draft year, but still a big man, with world class balance and skating abilities who has honed his abilities and matched perfectly across from Keith to form a great pairing.
Awhile back many here were commenting and mentioning all these elite Norris trophy defensemen that Duncan Keith was not.
Only speaking from experience, sometimes one great ain't what gets you there....
I just think back of those old Maple Leaf defenses that were basically no headline grabbing names but as an entire unit difficult as hell to win against. A group consisting of Larry Hillman ,Kent Douglass, Bobby Baun, Allen Stanley,Tim Horton, Carl Brewer.
I still thing a cohesive unit of six takes you along way.
The new game dicates a much more diverse combination of skill sets and each guy comes with a safety area that you basically count on them to perform and not hurt the club.
Nowadays that seems like what's more important than on big guy back there that all your chips are riding on....
thanks, i thought it was seabrook, who knows what bowman will do, i just hope he doesn't trade any young kids for any 38 year old d man. odonnell and/or excelby should be gotten only for draft picks, nothing else or pass.
To think about what our record would be with Cam Ward is absurd. What would the Canes' recored be with Duncan Keith and Jonathan Toews? All teams have assets and weaknesses. Rarely, does a team get it all.
The real question is what would the Hawks' record be with Niemi instead of Huet?
I am like everyone else and am enjoying this season immensely. And, yes, this team has strengths and weaknesses.
But it still leaves a crappy feeling when weak goals go in because the goalie spends more time on his knees than Monica Lewinsky. It pains me to watch the Hawks work their tails off, blocking shots and gutting it out to see it given back on an inexcusable wrap-around. I think this is what really gets people upset about Huet - were're not being gluttons for stats.
All the Cup talk is premature speculation (that's a pun). The Hawks have the best odds in Las Vegas but even so it's still 4-1. I'm not betting man but am a rooting fan.
I could do without Huet's Heartbreaks, now, and especially later.
A couple of things. if Niemi had played as much as Huet this year, the bloom would be somewhat off that rose.
In fact, the more he plays, the more we see that he (also) can be beaten high and he has fairly worse rebound control than Huet. Not throwing him under the bus, but, there could be (probably are) very valid reasons why he's not getting the lion's share of p.t.. And maybe he will before the end of the season.
Second, 80-90% of the goalies in the league play the same style Huet does. Watch Fleury or Lundqvist some time. Down. On the pads. For extended periods.
And those same 80-90% of goalies are vulnerable high.
Huet's save% is somewhat unsettling and I don't think his good GAA mitigates it either. But I also think the focus on Huet is both over the top AND it overlooks a potentially larger issue that the Hawks CAN actually do something about: a defense that is too reliant on offensive, puck-moving d-men and doesn't have enough responsible, physical guys.
The fact is, Huet really was not to blame for the loss in Carolina, and he was really the difference in the win in San Jose— the same kind of high-pressure road game all you guys were saying he couldn't win.
And yet, here we are, rehashing how Huet is the bane of the team.
YP, no offense here, but for all the attacking you do about armchair GMs, there sure seem to be a lot of armchair goaltending instructors on this board, don't there?
I can't figure either of them out and both can drive me nuts.
You're right, I don't know anything about goalies but it has been pointed out to me by others in-the-know that he has more glaring flaws - like a tendency to drop to his knees (like praying) rather than butterflying. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see him diving from one side to the other on wrap arounds. I just don't see other goalies "getting stuck" as Foley points out. The other mechanical flaw that has been pointed out is that when he does go down he drops his glove. Ideally the goalie will keep it midway up/down so he can go in either direction.
Quite frankly, I don't care what style he plays, what this all comes down to is that crappy feeling after watching the guys bust their nuts to fight back and watch it evaporate.
I will challenge you on one point: No one knows how Niemi will fare under the pressure of being the starter and a heavier schedule.
As for Huet, this will be the first time in history that a 'divorce' can be averted by going down less often.
Toronto just shipped three regular forwards (Blake, Stajan, Hagman, and pressboxed Jamal Mayers) with Toskala to Ducks and Flames for two top heavy contracts of Gigure and Phanuef.
You think, they might be interested in our depth, huh, huh, do ya', I betcha', eh?????
Hawks can get rid of Huet if they are serious. He was brutal earlier in the year and Tim posted they could send him to Rockford and his salary would come off the cap. That would free up space to make a move for an elite goalie. Hawks have enough assets to make this happen given cap space. I have no doubt the Hawks will even eat $6MM to make a run at the Cup. Everyone knows if it doesn't happen this year this team will be gutted this summer thanks to the cap and not have enough depth without young guys stepping up.
Last night's game once again reminds me that this team does not consistently bring its 'A' game to work. I realize that the Hawks won some critical games on the trip and that last night was the final game of a 15 day haul, but there is no way a team claiming to be top three in the NHL goes into Carolina and lays an egg. NHL hockey is all about winning the little battles all over the ice, but it appears our guys are not always willing to the pay the price it takes to win those battles night in, night out. Toews said something after the Edomnton game that I thought was telling. He commented that,"The building was a little flat," or words to that effect. It struck me that a championship caliber team doesn't care a hoot about whether there is "atmosphere" in the rink. Its all about getting the W, and it shouldn't matter whether every Oiler fan is asleep in his seat. Now I know that Carolina isn't too far removed from a Cup and that they've been hot as of late. But c'mon guys, they are the worst team in the East this year, and we ought to go into their building and bury them. Yeah, its been a nice season so far and yeah we're not going to win every game, I know. But to me last night's game indicates that this team still does not quite have that lunch-pail dimension that all great teams have.
I'm affraid I'm becoming more convinced, despite an open mind, the Hawks cannot win a cup with Huet in net. There is no doubt that the Hawks simply outplaying the other team doesn't get a win when the other goalie outplays Huet. In the playoffs, goaltenting is what usually steals a series and I fear we will have a series stolen if Huet is the best we have between the pipes. Last night was Exhibit A for the argument and I think that will be repeated a few more times before the regular season ends and will be the reason why the Hawks lose a playoff series they should have won come April. God I hope I'm wrong but his save percentage suggests that if the Hawks gave up as many shots as they usually take on their opponents we'd be giving up somewhere around 5 goals a game on a consistent basis. Oh to have a goalie like Ward... Go Hawks!
What would the Blackhawks' record be if we had their goalie and they had ours?
This thought has occurred to me more than a few times this season and last night was certainly an excellent example.
IMHO, if you switched Huet with the other team's goalies we win at least 5 more games.
If we switched Niemi we stay about the same - the Niemi / Howard or Niemi / Luongo duels are good examples of even netminding.
Facts:
Save %
Huet is not in the top 30 in the NHL / Niemi 13th
GAA (excluding the top 3 with less than 10 games)
Huet T-11 / Niemi 1
Blackhawks team GAA #2
This tells me the obvious - the Hawks' success is in spite of the goalies and not because of it.
Enjoy the ride, Huet seems to be.
Check the facts for yourself at:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20102ALLGAGAll&sort=save...
But i guess Its ok to criticize someone else for referring to them....
Make a move and trade for Ward today. How many times have we seen the O pepper the other goalie for 40 shots only to watch HOLEt face 20 shots and let in 75% of them. Yes they were tips and tough saves but goalies on teams that are supposed to win the Cup make a few of those saves once in a while. Bowman knows this is the elephant in the closet. We have the talent up front and on the blue line to make a run, but they will be lucky to make it out of the second round if Huet is our answer in net.
Ward is avaiable.
I love hockey enthusiasm but why would a team with a really nice good young goaltender on a winning streak even think about trading him, UNLESS they had a guy in the wings plying better than him for less money?
Why?
Because you want him for the Hawks?
Call them convince them.
Better player do get traded but the circumsatnces have to be there like the Calgary trade of Phaneuf.
theya re built to win now, and are niot even winning in the season games.
then you go get the heart and depth and you think teams can offer you.
You seem to think that you have some insight that the other 30 GMs in the NHL lack.
If Huet is mediocre, and overpriced, why would another team trade an elite goalie for him....without gutting the Hawks in other areas?
RealWiz is just saying that you have to pursue hard, because Ward won't get traded if Rutherford was even looking to make other trades. Ward is a keeper. And Rutherford probably is looking to unload some older veteran forwards, maybe a defenseman too.
RealWiz knows some people around the game. He used to write about prospects for hockeyfutures.com (or whatever it is called). He has insight and connections for many, many years. John J also is in same situation, only he does presently write on another site. You think they sometimes hear things before they happen? Yes, they do.
RealWiz also gets his draft stuff right. Not that he nor John nor I or anyone else has all the answers. I know I am not always right. But some of us do know a few people here and there. And some do write, have written for a long time. Jacukel writes on another site. There are also posters who watch a lot of NHL and other league games. So it's great to get all the opinions, your's as well. Of course your post makes sense. Looks more likely we improve our blueline corps if trades occur.
BTW: Abbotsford (Flames ahl team) has Seabrook's brother (d), first year pro, and Brandon Sutter's brother, Brett, (c) a second year pro. Those are which original NHL Sutter's sons?
I don't think that goalies like Ward ever get traded unless they have Ray Emery type attitudes, or are at the end of a contract and want out.
I'd still like to see Niemi get a 5 game run. Let him experience some ups and downs, so that when he has to relieve Huet 2 games into a playoff series he can come in with a little more confidence.
And....the defense really needs to tighten up. There is no reason why d man should be jumping in plays up by 2 or more. You are giving teams a chance to get an odd man break and get back into games.
The defensive zone coverage is really getting alarming. Way too many guys on the back end are beginning to think they are Paul Coffee and it's leading to far too many scoring chances the other way.
Huet is what he is. A guy who relies on air tight defense in front of him, with limited scoring chances against.
What we have now is what will be there at the end of this years run as far as goaltending goes. Honestly, Huet has played well as of late especially against the Sharks Thursday night. Hawks fans need to chill out.....a lot of the "Bad" goals he's given up this year have been due to pretty bad turnovers.
No one is perfect, especially our goalies. But these are the guys we have to get us to the promise land, the key is them getting on a run prior to the playoffs. The defense is good enough in front of them though to carry them in the playoffs.
I mean perfect example over the years was Osgood.
Cmon guys, let's not be negative ninnies....the Hawks are sick and we're sitting pretty darn good right now. Say prayers no one gets busted up during the Olympics!!
I was cringing when Hoss went down hard into the boards and was slow getting up....a relief to see him go to the penalty box rather than the dressing room.
Let's get real here. The bottom line is the Blackhawks are in dire need of a REAL goaltender.
I just feel that they cannot come home with all the hardware untill we get someone to play nets with a winning attitude. Get rid of Baby Huey period. Anti is a good backup and that's it. But I feel more comfortable when he's in. All the guys mentioned for trade here, I agree with. I only hope they try and get A REAL goalie.
That's the bottom line my friends.
Both goalies are in the top 10 in GAA as a result of very good play from them and team play...
Luongo 2..26 Huet 2.27....
thats the bottom line.
numbers don't tell the whole story - it is all about wins. Heck- i am sure the Hawks play a lot more defensively when Huet is in net. I can't remember that many great scoring chances that Huet had to stop in the Carolina game. Plus the defense is stopping more pucks, more than ever. Especially Hjammer, but not lately for Sopel. Also staying on the penalty box helps.
And another thing - the wins are definitely better against the best teams - - we lost to three hot teams Ottawa, Vancouver, and Carolina and with one win against San Jose. To say that was a good road trip beating up on the lesser teams while not elevating for games against the better teams. But the 5-3 record looks good with the cheerleading but we fail to understand how good is this team and there is definite room for improvement. Otherwise, we get in the playoffs and get smoked. And then wonder wtf happened.
Again, "are you crazy?"
His logic is tragically flawed (see my other post).
You can find numbers to support any claim - just look at the Whitehouse or Congress - but you can usually sniff out the BS. Contenting Luongo and Huet are on par with each other is, well, crazy..
yellow... never said they were on par only there GAA.....and I was referring to team play!
If your not going to read the whole post..why even bother?
Never saw the game sat night, but as far as Boldirev, I think he is just jerking everyone around. The guy has no logic, just man love for inconsistent players like Huet & Buff. Jacukel likes the same guys but shows up when those guys suck and says so. And like Yellowpages says, numbers can be interpreted a lot of ways. Maybe the guy is a politician. Or a stats geek online in his mothers basement. And if he suggested that Huet & Loungo are on par with each other, it better be a rubber room in that basement.
as far as jerking people around on here your pretty much the Art Ross award winner!
dont question my passion kid!
If you had bothered to read any of my posts over the last couple of years you would realize that the last time anyone called me kid was during the Johnson administration. I will apologize just a little for getting a little personal. And other than agreeing that Cam Ward should not be so highly praised after one game (Hossa's goal went right through him just like most everyone else's does with Huet), you & I don't agree on anything. Have a nice day anyway.
So its ok for you to insult people but you dont like it when it comes back at you?
I call as i see em
I apologized, for "F's' sake. I call it as I have seen it for over 40 years of watching it. Playing it. Working it. Coaching it. Just don't agree with you, that's all. You never take the heat when Huet looks bad. Show up when he sucks and you'll get more respect.
I comment on every thread and my knowledge of the game speaks for itself! I dont claim to know everything but i will speak my mind on subjects that interest me!
I stick my neck out there for players on this board like Huet Byfuglien Barker Versteeg Brouwer (rem the shanahan comment) etc....who i know are getting short changed by posters!
You can disagree with me all you want but there is no need for childish name calling...that is why i reacted like i did!
having said that i look forward to the next subject we disagree on!
Huet get's too much bashing here from some--he would never have made it out of Pee Wee if he was as bad as some say in every aspect of goaltending.
But, it's true his save % is 33rd in the league.
Yes, GA is a valid measure, too. BUT, Huet plays behind a puck-possession team that regularly outshoots the opposition by a large margin, and limits his work to less than 2 dozen shots a night.
For the $$ he makes, he should come up with the huge save after a tired Hawk team ties up the game.
Ward made those big saves, and Huet didn't. That's the real bottom line.
Every wannabe GM on here believes they know how to manage the team better than the GM/Coach!
I dont just throw unsubstantiated BS out there like "Cam Ward is an elite goalie" "we wont win the stanley cup with Huet" or "Versteeg has a lot of boneheaded giveaways" or "Byfuglien should be traded" or "barker is too slow"
Im not an expert in team management but as a former coach (at diff levels), ref and player i understand the game but I still study every minute of every hawks game and i try to follow/understand JQ`s strategy.
I base my opinions on playing time and playing situations and try to reason with the "over reactors" on here and dont claim to know it all ..THAT is the bottom line!
I'll drink to that
Everyone needs to get over the goal tending situation again. It's been said a million times by a million different people. Everybody gets it. We don't have the greatest goal tending in the league. But, due to the cap and the inflated contract of Huet, we have our goal tenders for the year.
Get over it.
It's not a new revelation. Let's not waste more infinite internet space with posts about how the hawks need better goal tending. We know. Get over it.
See, I can repeat things too, but I'm sure you all got it the 1st time.
There's an outside chance we could get a goal tender by the trade deadline, but it's so outside it's in outer space. Let's just enjoy the ride, and criticize things that can be fixed, like lack of effort and focus in Vancouver.
Take a good look at the defensmen. They have to bust their behinds every game to try and bail these guys out. The season is past the halfway point and they are not burned out yet. That is also a concern. Luckily the Blackhawks are the best conditioned team in the NHL. I am enjoying the ride so far, as well as everyone else. I hope these guys can keep bailing our goalies out till we do win it all.
I agree on the Vancouver game mess.
Sorry, but getting over the goaltending problem will not go away. The Blackhawks are well known for having some of the best that ever played. Now we have the worse.[Huet]
I feel better already.
As tonites game shows again Huet blows! And for all those who think this Huet is nit-pikin,if he blows now imagine the playoffs.We need Turco
Are you the same Hawks61 from SCH?
Turco has been crap in the playoffs. Im not a big Huet defender but I dont think Turco is any great upgrade over Huet.
I dont think Turco is a great upgrade either, but Huet is turnin to soft butter before our eyes RE: last nite.Niemmi can have the starting job till or if he loses it,but a rookie in the playoffs? I know Huet did great 2 yrs ago with Wash,but really he just seems to get dumber and dumber always out of postion.Id just like to have Turco as a backup or any veteran thats just my opinion.I could be way offbase JB but i see what i see with the fragile Huet.
Sorry to jump on you there, but your post was the 1st one I saw!
We should give our D a lot of credit for what they're doing in front of the average goal tending. If we had a dominant tender this team would be so good it would be unfair! I'll continue to enjoy the team playing in front of the net, because they're the true site to see.
Isn't having excellent blueliners what we would (or any team) hope to have in front of their goaltender if they don't have Vezina caliber goalies?
I don't follow other teams closely but I have to imagine there is an NHL team or two that has better or more experienced goalies thinking / wishing they had better d-men. And they are probably thinking they'd be higher in the standings too.
My point was just about his defensive abilities but the value to other teams including salary skills etc cant be understated, I agree. Speaking of the cap my attention would be on Seabrook in 2 years as I think he will be getting close to Keith type money but not Keith type years!
Im just glad we have an extra year to prepare for his salary bump!
Saturday's the KHL all-star game, and it features THREE ex Hawks:
Anton Babchuk
Lasse Kukonen
and . . .
Chris Simon?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4869852&name=nhl
Babchuk and Kukonen would replace Sopel on the third pair. Maybe replace Hendry as well. Kukonen just needs regular playing time and he is really a nice player for a third pair. Babchuk had his break through NHL season (Carolina) last year; he scored most of his 15 or so goals second half as his very good slapshot on powerplay has always given him an opportunity to be a meaningful contributor.
Wisnewski fans: had the game winning shootout goal last night. Unfortunately one big hit to knee and possible end of career. Still IF NOT FOR Barker type money in his new contract, he would have been a nice late trade addition (on the cheap/trade). Anaheim will probably make a push for playoffs, but fall short this year. About minus 20 goal differential. No Pronger and late arrival (from inj) Beauchimine available this year. A seller..but what would they offer that is attractive? Not much. The logical move is Barker and Versteeg for a keeper defenseman. Tough to go all the way believing (trust) in this goaltending. Our defense isn't airtight in playoffs, not with Campbell and present third pair.
Now that Ottawa is playing so well, don't know price/availabity of Volchenkov. The current roster as currently constructed: there are teams that beat Chicago in playoffs.
Babchuk and Kukonen would be depth for Rockford not the Hawks. I sure someone on this board will comment on how the Hawks let that cement head Chis Simon slip through their fingers. How does he make even the KHL All-Star team anyway? He probably could make the cement head league all-star team.