Quenneville stands by Huet
Cristobal Huet's save percentage has dropped to .902 after losses to Carolina and St. Louis where he allowed 7 goals on 43 shots.
Two of the goals the Blues scored against Huet in Wednesday’s 3-2 win were on deflections. And the 2 third period goals Carolina scored in Saturday’s 4-2 were tipped as well.
“I just think the last number of games (Carolina and St. Louis), you look at the number of shots we’ve had one way (75) and the number against us (43),” Blackhawks coach Joel Quenneville said after practice Thursday. “Whether they’re tipped or deflected, they’re tough saves.
“We’re not blaming the goaltending at all, but we know the importance of it. We know it’s a key position for us and we’re going to rely on it as we go along here.
“Be it defense, forwards complimenting our defensive game, goaltending, I think we should all absorb some responsibility there. The last two games, nullifying one of those goals I thought would have led to a win in both of them.”
Huet will start again Friday night against Phoenix with Antti Niemi still battling the flu. Niemi did not practice Thursday.
Meanwhile, there was a new look to three of the Hawks’ lines at Thursday’s practice with only the No. 1 unit of Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane and Troy Brouwer remaining intact.
As expected, Quenneville had Dave Bolland centering for Marian Hossa and Andrew Ladd.
"We tried it today in practice and I think that's something we're probably going to try,” Quenneville said.
Patrick Sharp was at center on the third line between Kris Versteeg and Dustin Byfuglien while John Madden practiced on the fourth line with Ben Eager and Tomas Kopecky.
Madden doesn't have a point in his last nine games and is minus-6.
"I just think we've got a lot of options," Quenneville said. "When you look at our forward lines, I don't think any team has so many forwards that can play in your top six, seven, eight or nine. You can say we've got 10 or 11 that deserve a higher line or better opportunity."
Rumor at the rink tonight was Letang for Umberger. That would quash Mckee to the Hawks...thank god. Doesn't mean it's true though.
Two questions:
1. What makes an elite goalie? 2. How many elite goalies are there in the NHL?
I know Huet isn't an elite goalie but seems like he is the whipping boy all the time when the Hawks lose. I am of the opinion that the D has let both goalies down a lot this year. They only give up 20-25 shots a game but there are a good number of those off bad turnovers or screened/tipped shots. So looking at all the goalies with save percentages better then Huet (in order):
R. Miller, Vokoun, Halak, Nabokov, J. Howard, Kiprusoff, Raask, C. Anderson, Lundqvist, Bryzgalov, Hiller, Brodeur, Nittymaki, Hedberg, T. Thomas, C. Ward, Price, Mason, Elliott, Roloson, Theodore, Ellis, Quick, Khabby, Fleury, Turco, Rinne, Emery, Giguere, M. Smith, and Pavelec
So which of these guys are true elite goalies? For me to start with I want a proven consistent winner. Then we might as well look at playoff performance since that is what we are looking when Huet scares us the most. So what does that leave?
I don't think Huet is the greatest but there aren't that many who are so much better. Maybe he doesn't play the butterfly style as well as he should or gives up the soft goal. Every goalie is giving up soft goals, its the NHL today. We can all speculate that Halak is young and developing, Nabokov will be able to have playoff success, or Fleury is a stud (despite his .908 save percentage). Sometimes the devil you know is better then the devil you don't.
they should have a ranking on the goals saved, easy to hard. Hell, look at the Hawks pepper goalies every game with tons of shots, which doesn't include tons of shots that miss the net. but how many are good quality scoring chances? Most of the Hawk shots are shots to the net from the blue line hoping for a screen or rebound or tip. But lately Hossa and Kane are getting some decent chances. I am sure some goalies face alot of great scoring chances and have to make tougher saves, because their defense is not so good or type of team play or injuries to the team or even injuries to the goalie or team schedule. Really, how many quality saves does Huet make every game? The answer not many - because the Hawks defense is good.
this is my biggest peave - for example - a player has a wide open net after accepting a nice cross ice pass, but the player doesn't bury it in the corner but shoots it in the middle of the net and right into the goalie - - - and the goalie is credited with a spectacular save. totally ridiculous. Yes, it is a good save, but wasted offensive opportunity. Or Buf's little cute dink between his legs in front of Mason last game. Mason was already down and covering the bottom. What were the chances? Buf was hoping for luck instead of making a stand and manuevering his body and strength for a better chance.
1.Broduer
2.Luongo
3.Nabakov
The next 3 give me a little uneasy feeling ranking them with the top 3...Miller Lundquvist Kiprsouff
Miller`s play is by far his best this year but can he keep it up!
Broduer is still the best even though he was drafted in 1990!
There's a lot of top-notch analysis on this board -- much better technical stuff than I can muster having never played -- but there's also a lot of crap reliance on sports cliches, namely the "never done it before; not ever gonna do it" junk regarding Q and Huet.
I will say this for Q: he's still around. He came up in the ugly NHL era (aka clutch-and-grab) and survived it, prospering so far in his 2nd-chance post-lockout phase. Scotty Bowman excluded, here's your Cup-winning coaches since the Devils trapped their way to the top: Marc Crawford, Ken Hitchcock, Larry Robinson, Bob Hartley, Pat Burns, John Tortorella, Peter Laviolette, Randy Carlyle, Mike Babcock, Dan Bylsma. What binds them? None of them have won more than once. Only the four most recent winners have jobs, and Laviolette was just hired midseason.
Only three have been back to the finals, and each of those lost the VERY NEXT YEAR (Babcock having lost twice, once with Anaheim before winning w/Detroit). If you want to base your opinions on ridiculous omens, I'd be pretty happy Q hasn't won it yet. Because there's still a YET.
But didnt say i believed it fully! I like the job he has done and fully support him and but believe anyone can be critiqued!
everyone is searching for answers and he is not forbidden fruit (you could and should prob find a better descriptive word)
Great post!
If we dont mind trading in division, Nashville has a cap issue and cant sign this UFA next year and are said to be exploring options!
He would fit in nice with our team...
PS Patrice Cormier and not Tenedby is in the deal
Nomask, no offense here.
None of us, really, are in position to remedy/second guess Huet, Q, Stephane Waite. Sure, we see what we see. Some of the finer points are not lost on us. But also, let's face it, everyone in this little debate really just wants to be right. Not lose face.
So they fight to the death on their P.O.V.. Huet is not to blame. Huet is to blame for everything.
The truth lies in between. Sorry, Haters, when the guy's on, he's pretty da-- good. Save % aside, he didn't lose the Carolina or St. Louis game, and it can be argued he won the San Jose game, yet some of you cling to the whole "he can't win a big game" argument.
But he IS mentally weak and will go into funks, lose his fundamentals. Bottom line, he ain't going anywhere. And while Niemi is very talented, he's raw. And he's been lucky. He leaves an open side or an open net and the shooter flat misses the cage. On the other hand, how many goals have gone past Huet off a guy's skate, tip-ins, weird a$$ bounces, etc.,
Point is, neither are great (right now at least) and neither are terrible. Sorry, you can anoint Chris Osgood the Great Playoff Goalie of all time, but he isn't and wasn't. He had Nik Lidstrom in front of him 30 minutes a night, and a second pairing of Brad Stuart and Nik Kronwall ain't bad to fall back on. The vast majority of the Hawks' shots in the WCF last year were from bad angles, softies, easy chances.
The Hawks' defense is great at pinching, keeping the puck in the offensive zone, making the stretch pass, not so great at clearing the front of the net or making the smart puck decision in all situations. Hawk forwards make bonehead puck decisions still a bit too often. This team needs a rest and a veteran defenseman (and maybe one less "offensive" defenseman— like #3) and a re-orientation on puck control and puck support and they'll be just fine. Huet or no Huet.
Who's #3? I tried following the posts on the other board and couldn't because I thought #3 was retired. I assume you're referring to Cam who has three letters in his shortened first name but wears #25... What am I missing...?
I'm an idiot. I always make that same mistake.
Disagree with one point, John, I'm in position to question Huet because I pay a lot of money for my season tickets... And anyone else that has a season ticket or has bought a game ticket or owns NHL licenced merchandise has that same right. This isn't midget hockey and I'm not comlaining about your kid playing over mine... This is a $5.6 MM/year professional so I think we all have the right to question him... Maybe semantics but that's my point.
Hey, I spent $1300 on tickets this year and $200 on Center Ice and $20 a month for XM, so I feel your pain. You have a right to biz-atch.
I'm just saying: This is the same Huet who's been lights out at times this year (and other years). It's not ALL him when they lose. And it's really usually not him when they win. it's the D and forwards making his job easy — JUST like Detroit did with Osgood for years. Some people here, sorry, want to make it all his fault all the time. At the same time, there's a temptation to make Niemi the Savior. I love the kid. But he is RAW. They are what they are. Q and Waite gotta coach 'em up. But let's also not ignore how our D has looked pretty crappy in their own end the last few games.
All I'm saying.
Before those who don't have season tickets (i do) start in, they have just as much of a right to complain as we all do. Everyone who is a fan has a right to hold their team accountable, and to high standards. I know we all pay thousands, but the Hawks aren't a privately held team like the Packers, so the Hawks could replace us if they choose to do so. These aren't PSLs....yet.
Look at Washington. I would rather have Huet then Theodore. Theodore is a pile, and the point of the Detroit d-man clearing the net is a huge point. Washington is almost in the same position. Their Russian goalie is still a question mark for the most part, and their high paid veteran, can be helter skelter as well. I'm watching NHL on the fly, and he's let in some horrible goals tonight.
What I don't get, and what really boggles my mind, is why is Keith pinching so much? He doesn't have to. This team is deep, has 4 lines that can cause a mismatch most nights, and you already have a Campbell who can rush it with the best of them. I understand Keith wants the Norris, but at some point, he needs to get back to being the rock he was last year. As somebody else pointed out, Seabrook can't be left on an island because he can't be that guy....he needs Keith.
If the Hawks limit the prime scoring chances to a small amount, and keep shots to the outside, then we better get very good goaltending out of Huet. However, when he's being left out to dry, like he has been lately, what do you expect?
I feel you, but I see other teams beat us because their goalie stands on his head and I don't see that equation going our way too often. And, it's the playoffs, where tight games are determined by the better goalie play, that really have me worried. It's a shame, really, but I don't see how we get through four series unless Huet gets his head up, makes himself big in goal, and figures out a way to make those tough stops that often times are game-changers. I'm not saying Niemi is the answer, either, because the kid's played like, what, 20 some NHL games in his career. I don't know that there is a solution, I just don't think the Huet apologist are quite correct when they jump to his defense and claim that "he was not to blame for x, y or z goals". His job is to stop the puck come hell or high water. And citing Troy Murray's analysis (and I love Troy as a broadcaster and loved him as a player) changes my opinion because he's a Hawks announcer and he understands what's at stake. The goalie cannot become a point of dissention in the organization or this season is toast. So Q's not going to throw Huet under the bus and Murray's not going to throw Huet under the bus. But there are good arguments that Huet is not doing his job because he's not keeping the puck out of the net consistently enough, whether Boldirev or Judd Sirrot agree with me or not and whether Boldirev's hockey pedigree is bigger, longer and thicker than mine or not... [yuck]
and a little unnerving......however having digested that, if Huet isnt the type of goalie to steal games than our style of defense should be inline with his strengths...
right?
We already allow the fewest shots (or close to it) in the league... What else can our defense do? I agree you play to your strengths and play away from your weakness, but if the weakness is the last thing between the puck and the back of the net, it's kinda hard to avoid the occassional convergence of the two. As I've said, Huet does some things marvelously well, like stop very good players on one on ones, but he seems to be dazed and confused at times and the puck seems to be like kryptonite to Superman at times for him and when the puck is bouncing the other team's way we are in trouble. My hope remains that he gets his head up and becomes the guy we ride to the cup because that's all I want to see, the Cup being hoisted by our boys in the spring and a banner being raised to the rafters next fall!
How about this...how much better in GAA could we be with Brodeur Luongo or Nabakov? 2.20 is like you say as good as you could hope for. I know with one of those guys it would be better but i stare at the numbers and think how?
BTW Atlanta gives up prospect and 2nd rounder and receives an NJ 2nd rounder to complete the deal!!
As i said before I believe the NHL has caught up with us a bit and are forcing us out of our comfort zone and thus the mistakes. Its up to the team to adapt and plug the holes.
Brodeur`s numbers are not far off from huet...so he stops 9.2 out of every 10 shots to Huets 9 out of 10!
Broduers numbers are similar to his average for his career but what does that say to you when huet has similar numbers?
I watch a a game or 2 per night...NHL package and I see lots of goals that are again similar!
Agree on some things.
Look back to Vancouver and Calgary last year. Khabibulin had a reputation of being able to steal a series like he did with Tampa. He was in their heads at some point, but does anyone here think that Huet will be in anyone's heads come playoff time? Probably not.
you could say that Huet's career could be on the line this spring. With a Hawks team that is loaded, this guy HAS to step up. No excuses. He has to be strong and make that timely big save when the Hawks will need it.
good point Khabby had the rep (rightly so) as someone who would win games by himself...but he didnt with us and who is to say if we did trade for a goalie of that type he would do it for us?
Khabby proves not all goalies perform everywhere they go...dont you think its possible the team has a lot to do with the success overall?
thanks steve ..i cant believe i missed that comparison
Huet is going to be a "C" whether at times he plays better than that, and sometimes when he plays worse than that "C." We're stuck with him. Can't disagree with the ongoing conversation about how well he has played lately. But we are at a disadvantage with the way he covers net when he goes down on his pads.
Jacukel, you said it: we will hope to see our defense improved. Wallin may be gone. Test time: whom might Bowman acquire? No one? Will he wait too long, will he overpay? Will he trade a good prospect? We'll see. But if you think we can go far with Barker, Sopel, and the Jekyl/Hyde Campbell NOT TO MENTION if Q doesn't get our first defense pair playing the way a first pair is supposed to play ....playoffs won't stretch too long.
When do Keith and Seabrook rest, anyway? Will our nice division point lead shrivel? with those two getting some games off? Keith in particular will have a weak playoff if he keeps playing so much. 6628: Could Seabrook fix his skating with a summer's worth of practice? Not enough time to fix it?
I want either Aliu or Beech eventually because we need someone to be crazy enough to make some dirty hits and rile up the opponent. Can't have the biggest guy on your team playing too soft and not intimidating -- not when no one else on team takes Bufuglien's role. So he gets in his checks. Better put him in front of the net, coach Q NOW. How much longer before you realize? Is keeping Seabrook fresh (no PP duty) just one reason why Q put Seabrook on the point?
Hi Puck, Seabrook is never going to be a gazelle, never have the footspeed like Keith. But he can develop a longer stride which will keep him from being too upright and prone to getting up on his toes, which causes him to stumble and sometimes fall on his own. A longer stride would force him to bend his knees more and that alone would give him way more control of his balance. And don't think that Keith couldn't use a little powerskating. He could lengthen his stride as well, but his footspeed more than makes up for his short stride and he doesn't get up on his toes like Seabrook. If they both would develop a little longer stride, they would use less energy when they are on the ice. That might help right about now. And the hawks have the very best powerskating coach I have ever seen. That older guy from the Boston area that they had on the ice with the prospects in camp at the icehouse had drills that everyone from beginner to NHL allstar could benefit from. If I was the Gm I would require Seabrook to spend as much time as possible with that coach. And that goes for for the rest of them as well, especially the defense.
Shame, I was hoping that Kovalchuk would come to a western conference team to ruin them, thus making it easier on the Hawks to advance.
You can't keep your true feelings all bottled up. It's not good for you. Say what you really think, man.
;)
Jac, you and I are dropping the gloves at Nationwide on the 14th. lol
Done....
Bob mackenzie tweeted Probably... but not yet
Trust me....others in the know other then Mr. McKenzie.
I cant believe it knowing what Atlanta would want
Top 6 fwd Travis Zajac???
top 4 Dman Martin is hurt? how could they afford it
cant wait to see the details
Bergfors, Oduya, 1st rnd pick, and a prospect named Tedenby.
I have no knowledge of the Devils, but that seems a bit light to me. Gotta wonder if Waddell got a little desperate.
PS Patrice Cormier and not Tenedby is in the deal
Berfors 13 goals 14 assists -7 54 games RW
Oduya 2 goal 2 assist in 40 games d-man
That's all they gave up besides the prospect and pick ?
the Devils must really believe in their def depth with martin hurt...
Mattais Tenenby is a swedish 2008 1st rnder LW 5'9 180
Sounds like Skille, Versteeg, Barker and a first beats that so I can't believe the Hawks were ever really in it. Again, I fear our spash will be a turd in the toilet and sound more like kerplunk! And this team is desperate for a shot in the arm. Starting to look like the limo strip poker isn't helping things either... Again, I've said it before, when you look up in the rafters and see three where 10-15 should hang, you've gotta worry about what's going to happen to keep us from the Promised Land this time... (sigh!)
I'm ready for the announcement of Barker and Versteeg to Toronto for Exelby and a 2nd and then I'm going to shoot myself in the face!
Most teams bidding were not willing to chump up big before the Olympics. Waddell, naturally, wanted it done before then. He took the best offer on the table right now.
If that's what kept the Hawks from making the move then we're in trouble because they're telling us money will take priority over winning and we've got Bill Wirtz and Bob Pulford wearing different suits running our current Hawks. That means we've got Huet for the length of his deal and Campbell for the length of his deal and we'll lose guys like Buff, Sharp, Versteeg, Barker, Niemi and Ladd and they'll be replaced with guys like Moe, Larry and Curly, and we'll be a middle of the pack team that makes the playoffs with a snowball's chance in hell of winning the cup for the next 10 years... God help us if that's the case!
"...Huet is our goalie."
Yawn.
like the Rex quarterback is not good enough.....but will be what we rely upon in playoffs.
You always like to be able to afford the name brand, not the Rx version. Oh, wait, was it McDonough and Tallon who thought a long term investment of Huet was the good enough version? We'll see how he does in the playoffs. Campbell I could understand somewhat his $$$ AND THE BIG SPLASH signing/marketing. Yes, we'll try to win with a "C" goaltender!
Perhaps next year Niemi, Fallon, Richards may emerge. Their progress will be a key, because if they aren't getting better, and quick at that, then it's the same old Huet. Who would take his contract even next year? What contract would we take back. Huet here at least one more year. But hey, Rocky gives some of his McDonough marketing generated money to pay for everything. Including Tallon on the sidelines.
Tallon could help in some way? Yes. Cheer for St Bowman, a cancer survivor. But no way he wants Tallon as his sidekick. I'm going to say he will be ok as a GM. Bowman is handicapped by the $$$ more than the performance on ice of Huet signing? Campbell you can live with as a second pair guy AS LONG AS BOWMAN CAN IMPROVE THE THIRD PAIR & Our FIRST PAIR PLAYS LIKE A FIRST PAIR SHOULD!
Not a goaltending expert, but I know a little bit about the position -- the loneliest position in sports. Here's the problem. When Huet goes down, he shrinks to the size of a baby's bib.
I was at the game last night, and when I was thumbing through the program I was shocked to learn that Huet is listed at 6-1, 205. That's a decent sized netminder. But after watching him play, if I had to guess, I would have thought 5-10, 180 at best.
This guy plays small, simple as that. When he goes down in the butterfly, he sits on his pads; they need to be splayed out. He drops his shoulders; he needs to puff his chest and get his shoulders up. His glove/blocker fall to this his sides. He needs to get them up, with crooked elbows. And that technique holds the stick in the dreaded 5-hole.
Basic stuff here. My kid did it for a dozen years at the youth level. Every goalie, from Mites to the NHL, has 24 square feet behind them. I firmly believe Huet gives up 5-6 square feet behind him because of his poor butterfly technique, not to mention leaving the 5-hole open.
And if he's "playing big," so many of these misdirected pucks will hit him -- because he's in the right place, in the right position technique-wise. The puck finds goalies who play the position properly.
With Huet, they too often find the back of the net. Not good, my fellow fans. Not good.
nomask-- this game is not rocket surgery. Logic always makes sense. And your explanation of what you see is perfect. Everything can be broken down to "basic stuff", and you did it as well as anyone could.
Thanks for the bouquet. My son toiled between the pipes for 12 years, and I learned a fair amount living through junior, if you know what I mean. Goaltending is not just flopping around on the dock in desperation, unless your name is Mr. Hasek. It's a fundamental science, if you will, and I see Huet ignoring the fundamentals way too often.
I have explained a hundred technical reasons for my thinking that Huet is brutal since the day they signed him and have explained why. And for my efforts I get called a "hater". You explained it better than me in 1 post. It's me that thanks you.
Cmon guys a science isnt about one style or one technique and certainly doesnt fault one style over another because some goalies cant do the butterfly and some cant stand up! Tony O`s butterfly was even more unconventional than most Butterfly styles today since the day he started using it and he had a fine career but the book on him was to shoot high after enticing him to go down!! How Ironic....
if you believe in stats or not a brutal goalie does not have our best GAA since 1973-74(yes Tony O)!!
This is just a gross over exaggeration..I would except average to slightly above average but brutal...please
Boldirev, I understand there is more than one way to play goalie. A tender's style can be impacted by height, weight/body width, quickness, flexibility, equipment, etc. There's more than one way to stop the puck.
But at the same time, there are also basic fundamentals in today's game that need to align with the goalie's chosen style. And when I watch Huet tend the twine, I see a goalie who lacks the basic fundamentals, regardless of which style he adopts. An open 5-hole is an open 5-hole, no matter what style you employ.
As for Tony O going down, you are correct. That was his bugaboo. The problem is he went down while the shooter still had the puck. Boom . . . top shelf . . . red light goes on. The key is to make the shooter shoot, then you do what must be done to stop the puck. That's what makes it so difficult. There's not a whole lot of time between the puck leaving the shooter's stick and the puck arriving at the net.
And for what it's worth, a true butterfly goalie uses the technique when the shooter is in too close to beat him high. Depends on the depth of the shooter. And that depth-to-open net ratio depends on the size of the goalie. It's basic geometry.
I truly believe the butterfly is misunderstood. A goalie going down and making a pad save on a shot from the top of the circle is not a butterfly goalie. It's a goalie making a save with his leg pads. Really, the butterfly should only be employed when the puck is within 5 feet or less of the goalie (ballparking here).
Now, I'll hang up and listen for my answer.
These guys are professionals who have been playing in the nets since they started walking in most cases. The best usually get the proper coaching at different levels and always have someone in their ear prodding them and showing them whats wrong with their current style.
But talent trumps technique in most cases I think...To stop these crazy shootout attempts takes an amazing "athlete". Goalies at one point evolved into more than just Turk Broda`s.....
I give the benefit of doubt to the goalie in this case...his record is no accident!
I have had an 30 year argument going with a child hood friend Habs fan over who was better Tony O vs Ken Dryden...
I say Drydens stats where better and he got to start the 72 Canada cup and had better overall success because he played for a very strong Montreal team and Espo constantly faced more shots with an inferior team (slightly, forget 76-77) (and im talking throughout their careers at this point)
their styles were very very different and both were near the top each year in most categories (add Bernie Parent too)
Both would still thrive in todays game..although Tony would have had to stop using webbing between his legs as he was secretly known all those years as the grandfather of illegal goalie gear that the men in the nets made famous in 90s!!!!
When they played in the all star game Giacomin noticed the web. And the next time the Rangers played the hawks he told the ref and made Tony cut out the web. But he had the class to do it just before the game started, so no penalty for the hawks. But Tony was pissed.
Those are things i missed not being able to go to the games live....I heard about it on "hockeys Heroes"
i was crushed when i first heard about how one of my Heroes was cheating....now I admire his ingenuity!!
I knew about the web for a while and the looks on the faces of the guys who were sure they had scored 5 hole only to see Tony O soak it up and spit it out were priceless. Even Phil, his brother. I'm not sure he knew about it. But Shane Churla was no slouch. He could really throw em and guys at some point when they were getting fed rights & lefts would grab his arms. So Churla cut his sleeves off and then put them back on with velcro. So when you grabbed his sleeves off they came and he just kept chucking away. Guys coming over to the box after just having gone a round with Churla for the first time were really pissed off as you can imagine. And then there is the retired assistant trainer for the Blackhawks. I'm sure he wishes he had a patent. He cut up a hockey garter belt, sewed one strap & snap into the back of the jersey and invented the first fight strap. Hooked it onto the button of the back of the pants next to the suspender. You should have seen the faces of the guys who could no longer get the jersey over Keith Magnuson's head, and did Maggy (rest his soul) make some hay for a while until they figured it out.