How Hawks might look with Niemi
The way I figure it, the Blackhawks can stay under the NHL's $59.4 million salary cap with 21 players thanks to the favorable $2.75 million arbitration award goalie Antti Niemi received on Saturday.
It would leave only approximately $246,000 under the cap to start the season, but that number could be a bit larger if general manager Stan Bowman decides to carry only 20 players.
With their Rockford farm team just 90 minutes away, it's certainly possible the Hawks could go with 20 players at the start of the year.
My roster of 21 includes nine players who make less than $900,000 in John Scott, Bryan Bickell, Jack Skille, Jake Dowell, Jeff Taffe, Hannu Toivonen, Viktor Stalberg, Jordan Hendry and Jassen Cullimore.
Combined those nine would earn about $5.178 million.
Add that to the $53.9 million for Marian Hossa, Patrick Sharp, Dave Bolland, Tomas Kopecky, Troy Brouwer, Brian Campbell, Brent Seabrook, Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, Niklas Hjalmarsson and Niemi, and you get roughly $59.078.
Are these numbers what Bowman is thinking? Maybe we'll find out later on Saturday, although the Hawks have made no guarantee the GM will speak to the media.
Possible roster:
Brouwer – Toews – Kane
Kopecky – Sharp – Hossa
Stalberg – Bolland – Skille
Bickell – Taffe – Dowell
Keith – Seabrook
Campbell – Hjalmarsson
Scott – Hendry
Niemi and Toivonen
Spare: Cullimore
Havent even had camp yet,and people have rock solid lines already.If Q or the Bowmans see something they like dont you think that player has a shot?Toews and Kane didnt go Rockford just cause they were 1st rounders,but that the powers that be said they have TALENT.If a Leddy LaLonde even a goffball Beach etc.. has a great camp who knows what the lineup will be?Wiz you have been around a long time and i think you have seen this happen right? Lets at least wait till camp to make are lines.
Sign him and trade him or just let him walk. You would think after winning a cup and being given a great opportunity in the nhl he would appreciate what the Hawks have done for him. Instead he rapes them for every cent he can at the expense of other team mates losing jobs. Is he Russian or something?? If Turco will go for 1.5 I would take him as Niemi is as good as gone next year anyway if he has any success this year. This is what you get with a salary cap and really it makes you wonder about Toews, Kane, Hossa, Campbell and Keith. Maybe each one of them should pick throw is half a million and restock the team with a little more quality. I mean I know it ain't going to happen but in the cap world you can really only afford one or two long term biggies and not five of them. Poor cap management has created this monster!
That is a really uninformed and misguided post on many levels. But specifically, you would rather have a pretty much used up Turco that, obviously, nobody wants, or he wouldn't be available anymore, over an up and coming goalie in Niemi, who may be a stud for the next ten years. All for 1.25 mil? Comon'. As for your foolish "rapes" comment, it is a business, and that's what agents are for. There are no "player appreciation" give backs.
The Blackhawk we to have offered Niemi a three year 8 mil deal which shakes out at 2.66 Million not that far from 2.75 only a 90,000 difference.
The problem may be that the Hawks NEVER expected the offer to be that low. The entire organiztion form announcers to office aides were expecting the number to be at 4 million, and they got Turco to take a really low number to have one good shot at rebuilding his career in front of real top 2 pair defense.
If Scotty Bowman thinks Turco is the better guy for a year (as next year more quality goaler become UFAs), than Niemi the dye is cast.
If the hawks have guys lined up to be a PK unit they will need money to sign them.
I am really curious at every word that the Bowmans spout no matter what the team does....
The entire organization? Announcers to office aides? I knew you were connected, but this level of access is unprecedented. Tim S. would be well advised to consult you before writing articles.
/sarcasm
Anyhoo, Dallas (that's the crumby Dallas Stars to be clear) decided to roll the dice on Kari Lehtonen's groin and conditioning rather than commit any more of the organization's time and money to Turco between the pipes. And you think there's a chance that Bowman would prefer him to Niemi? Have you looked at Turco's history in Detroit? (against Detroit) And you think there's a chance that Turco is the guy Bowman wants between the pipes? This is some good and funny stuff, whiz . . .
Next time, for the real straight dope, talk to the bartenders in the Sonja Henie room . . .
Lehtonen, another Finn with great athleticism, but nothing on his resume comparable to what Niemi boasts, will make $2.7 million this year, $3.5 million next year and $4.25 million the year after that. And Niemi should (may) walk because he is overpriced at $2.75 million?? Some of the posters here amuse me.
Thank you!
too bad they already signed Turco?
Add Niemi to
FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m)
Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Jack Skille ($0.600m)
Bryan Bickell ($0.541m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Igor Makarov ($0.552m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
John Scott ($0.512m) / Jassen Cullimore ($0.500m)
Jordan Hendry ($0.625m)
(Anyone hwo thinks Scott is a regular playing time defenseman is delusional. he will spend time on wing as an enforcer playing a few minutes at both slots but when in the line-up a forward. Vishnevskiy makes suffers from the Jack Skille syndrome of past years making more that the line-up can permit.)
GOALTENDERS
Hannu Toivonen ($0.550m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $4,157,753
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,470,757; BONUSES: $65,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $2,994,243
No way he hits the ice. Makes Sopel seem like a speed skater! Couldnt keep up at Rockford. Would rather see LaLonde make terrible rookie mistakes on the ice every game thaen the goof!
Are you saying Vishnevskiy does not make the team because of his 1.2 or whatever it is? The difference in my opinion is that Skille could be replaced more cheaply but Vishnevskiy is a great talent and makes the likes of Scott, Cullimore, and Hendry look like push mowers compared to the 6.75 horsepower gas ones. I mean Vish can skake, pass and has made huge strides in the d zone. Scott and Cullimore are right offs and I am not sold on Hendry. Just my opinion but I have followed Vish very closely since junior. In Junior he was so good he did not have to play defence and he has dilligently worked to improve his game and made huge strides last year and should improve even more this year equating to a job in Chicago unless like you say the Skille syndrome bites him in the butt.
obviously doesn't reflect the best Hawk players for the line-up.
I think if Vishnevskiy shows he belongs, then someone else goes. Remember they do need a bigger guy in that pairing who shines defensively.
I think they cannot carry Vishnevskiy and Scott as the third pair and expect solid play or I would have left it at that. Scott will be used elsewhere, and not play every game. So you have to have another cheap salary, and believe me Cullimore is not my idea of a great third pairing.
I think Skille can kill penalties. I think the have to give him a chance to stick and then go from there.
I agree on Hendry, but the new NHL and Cap make Hendry's NHL third pair guys
Tough decision because too much money was given previous to this past year to Bufuglien, Versteeg, Bolland, and Sopel. Paid what they should reasonably have made, you wouldn't have to worry if you could afford Niemi at 2.75 mill.
The best chance to go far in playoffs upcoming season is with Niemi in net. Then you have headaches with signing Seabrook, Niemi and retaining Sharp. But getting into the playoffs could be tricky if you don't have a strong enough third pair. Consider Vishnevsky gives you a nice transition game from defense on each pair, but he will never improve to being close to solid defensively. So, is it Scott and Hendry that has to be the better half defensively on third pair. I do believe both could be descent, but good enough? You do realize with Niemi there is no room to add someone else. The prospects on defense aren't ready yet.
So there you have it -- tough call for Bowman. At some point does he stop overpaying to keep players. AlreaDY HAS, WITNESS Ladd, Versteeg departure. I don't really think Scotty saw Buf as a keeper, because as a big man he has to fight back and BUff would rather smile and stay out of penalty box because, you know, he thinks he is a great talent and big scorer. Yeah, put him on a big size line like Getzlaf/Perry/Ryan and he'll score more. And who wouldn't score more if they played with Toewes instead of on the third line. Buf will always be the inconsistent player because that is what is inside him -- oh you think he'll have one great year, like a Glenn Beckert did for Cubs? We had our great year -- won a Cup. NOw it will be nearly a miracle if we repeat. Just facing the right playoff matchups and staying healthy is lucky itself. We won't have the player depth and experienced as last year's team. Looking ahead, it is how well the various prospects turn out and then, how Bowman manuevers players to find the best winnning combination. I still say Bolland is a good player, but not the best choice for someone to scare the other team as your #2. THat he scored a lot in juniors means he could do that at that level. And as the #2 center on a team loaded with first rounders. Look, Bolland is good and I do believe he would outplay other #3 centers. He wins you playoff games when he has a Ladd and Versteeg as wingers. He doesn't necessarily win you games even if he has a Havlat on wing when he is the #2 center. I am content keeping Bolland, his best years are ahead but as the #2 center?
I am totally confused by this statement:
Tough decision because too much money was given previous to this past year to Bufuglien, Versteeg, Bolland, and Sopel. Paid what they should reasonably have made, you wouldn't have to worry if you could afford Niemi at 2.75 mill.
Are you saying that IF Tallon had NOT overpaid Byfuglien, Bolland, Sopel, and Stan's staff hadn't screw the Versteeg qualifying offer, the HAWKS would NOW have the money to have signed Niemi during the last season and not have to deal with this now?
I don't think NHL players are "scared" by each other.
I do think when Bolland's wrist was subjected to that blatant stick from big Joe Thornton, that said a lot about what opposing centres think about Boland and his skills....
The ESPN stuff comes from Jesse Rogers
Jesse Rogers knows hockey. But remember, he was on the same radio station that broadcast the Hawks during the dreadful Pulford era. To my knowledge Jesse never pointed the finger of blame towards the dreadful Pulford.
What Jesse Rogers knows about hockey could be written on a gum wrapper with a crayon
Even at 2.75, Niemi is very expensive and surely someone else will have to go. Perhaps, you move Kopecky? Not Brouwer, please. Too much potential there. All things considered, I'd let him walk and take my chances with a young netminder. No more big deals for goalies.
The ESPN report is apparently true. Which tells me that Stan Bowman and the Hawks are surely angry with how this thing unfolded and are done with Niemi. Plus an offer of $1.5 million telegraphs that the Hawks are not completely sold on Niemi's long-term effectiveness.
Hello Marty Turco. I'm not a Turco fan, but maybe he can make me a convert for one year.
I was never big on Turco, either. But my dog handles the puck better than Niemi. If Turco is to be an improvement, it would be handling the dump in's and helping set up a breakout. Especially if you have a clubfoot like Scott coming back to retrieve the puck. And the extra cap space should allow a veteran face off guy/penalty killer to be signed. I do agree with Wiz that Skille can be taught to be a penalty killer. He seems to have the speed, just have to teach him where you want him to go and when. So, anyway, tough call on the goalie thing. Criticize the guy, but Niemi wins. Glad I'm not Stan Bowman these last couple of months.
They made a low offer because they knew that Niemi's camp would use Halak's $4mil per as a comparible. The difference of $2.75 is a number that they should be able to live with.
"It's not personal Sonny, it's just business..."
My personal view is that Niemi is gone. I hate to see him go, but I think Bowman is going to stick to his principles on this one. The fact that Niemi and his agent couldn't get a deal done with the Hawks telegraphs to me that Bowman is not completely sold on his longer-term effectiveness. At least not yet anyways.
Suffice to say, this thing going to arbitration in the wake of the Hawks' acute salary cap issues has likely generated bad blood. Plus $2.75 million is not a good number for the Hawks, no matter what the cap geeks want to suggest otherwise.
All of which means hello Marty Turco in goal for a year.
That the hawks offered 1.5 mil and that Neimi's agent asked for $4 mil. They are expecting the hawks to deal Niemi which is just plain brutal.
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/blackhawks
$2.75 is a decent cap hit - make it work.
Hey have any of you guys ever checked this site out? Here is a link to the blackhawks page... http://hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30
it is for rookies, since most writing there are rookies
ehhh not really.... it's a different experience than here as you can actually create your own topic and there are always open discussions everyday rather than every 2 or 3 days here. Yeah some people there are annoying sometimes but everybody should give it a try
Christmas in July. The Hawks got their present early. Thank You aribitrator.
As speculated earlier, the arbitrator obviously used as a guide the 2.75 million first year salary of the Halak/Blues contract. With the Reasoner salary dump, this becomes affordable for the Hawks. Unless Turco will play for peanuts, the Hawks will keep Niemi figuring there is more upside with Niemi and a possible big downside with Turco being practically 35 (on Aug 13).
Agree totally with Tim's projected opening lineup.
Brilliant job by Stan Bowman.
we still need to fill these holes.
YOu saw what happen when Campbell went down last year. Boynton and Buf did ok, but.... Hawks D and O floundered. Was it due to Campbell out of the line-up or no replacement? hmmmmm But hold on, we got Culllimore.
Also - who is replacing Madden? More worried about killing penalties and face-offs. EVen though i don't think he was the greatest face-off man. I do like Maholtra and a little pricey now.
Was he really looking out for his client - - - well, trying to get the most money for his man, benefits both him and Niemi. I just see this being a problem next year anyways. So we get Niemi for one more year. Is it worth it to sign him? Let him walk and let Crawford and tovinennnen play behind Turco - put tons of pressure on the kids and see who handles it the best - then say if you want to be the goalie for the Hawks sign - 4-5 years for 1.5 mil wtih some incentives (reasonable incentives). If they can't handle it, it will be easier to move that smaller contract.
What stinks - you develop the kids and they move on after making it big. You need to circumvent this. I still don't understand those big contracts given to Bolland, Versteeg, and the other player at last years deadline - totally stupid by Tallon and SB.
Also - i see the Devin S signed at SJ for 1.8 mil. What the F? How come no Hawks couldn't take a home town discount. Both Ladd and Fraser signed for not much more then what they are making now. Fraser probably wanted a little more playing time. but Ladd, what the F.
to play hard ball with teams and look what happens to the player......ruuttu! bam ! traded!,wiz,same thing! niemi soon to follow suit!.zito could be a cementhead at times like most agents. why don't more players take up the attitude of "hey you work for me ,i like it here,take the gun out of the owners back and make it work!"
"Also - i see the Devin S signed at SJ for 1.8 mil. What the F? How come no Hawks couldn't take a home town discount. Both Ladd and Fraser signed for not much more then what they are making now. Fraser probably wanted a little more playing time. but Ladd, what the F."
lol, it's cuz devin s stinks! he's played horribly past couple of years. Ladd and the others were RFA's and got raises and would have gotten raises had it gone to arbitration. all of what happened this summer is a numbers game and the salary cap. It wasn't anyone trying to be selfish or whatnot. we were a very very deep team, you can't expect everyone to stay on the team.
He got almost a million a year raise from Atlanta,what do you mean not much more? I dont understand.
Where are the $5MM in last year's bonuses n Mr. S's numbers?
The 53.9 mil for the 11 players includes the bonuses.
Have no problem with the award, but disappointed with the fact that Niemi/agent didn't accept the team's original offer which was close to the same amount anyway. It seems to me, he really didn't much care that a large award could make the team jettison other players, thereby lessening team strength. That said, if the team complies and signs him, I hope some of the bubble players don't hold it against him and cause team chemistry to be less than ideal...
Don't worry Antti's still a Hawk GREAT news! And yes Doug Wilson proved he is a back biter. Please no more Wilson appearances at Blackhawk commemorative celebrations!
He made a clever move that might have landed him either Hjalmersson or Niemi. Get over it.
A few question marks there. Cullimore? Ouch. Plus, last year you said Skille wasn't ready for the NHL. No guarantee he's ready for this year either.
I predict one more deal, but I just don't know who.
Scott getting a regular D-man shift? At first glance, that scares the heck out of me. Is he capable of that? I thought he'd be a guy that dresses for the St. Louis games and a few more after that.
I don't think they signed him just for the fun of it... He will probably play the 6th man minutes on D.
I can't wait until he pops Cam Jansens in the mouth.
i do like Niemi, but i would rather have the wiggle room. Hawks still need another dman of some quality.
What do you guys think the chances are of us signing Turco for around 2mil, trading Niemi for a pick (2nd rd. or something), and then trying to sign Niemi next year in free agency? or is it once we trade his rights to another team that they can sign him to however many years and dollars they want?
I do not think Turco will sign for $1.5 mil. He turned down $2 mil plus from the Eastern Conference champion.
Cullimore...
I'm so glad they can sign him. Even if it's just for another year.
With Niemi back, I'd say the bhawks have a good chance to go at least very far in the playoffs.
What a great core.
Tim, you want Niemi back at that number right?
Next year, with the ~4mil bonus off the books, should be fun.
Looks good to me.