Bowman mulling Niemi options
Blackhawks general manager Stan Bowman will wait until Monday to formally announce whether the team plans to keep goaltender Antti Niemi.
Bowman said Sunday morning at the Hawks’ fan convention there would be a staff meeting later in the day to discuss the situation.
Niemi was awarded a one-year contract worth $2.75 million by an arbitrator on Saturday. The Hawks can accept the deal and try to fit it in under the salary cap, walk away from it, or trade Niemi.
“Well, at this point I think we meet as a staff,” Bowman said Sunday. “We do things together. That’s the way we’ve done it all year long. It’s not a one-man show. We have a collection of opinions.”
There remains strong belief in some circles that the Hawks were exploring options on Sunday to trade Niemi.
“I don’t know if there’s one specific point to get across,” Bowman said. “It’s just that there are options, more than anything. There are always options in every decision. You have to weigh what it would take, what it would do to your team in terms of flexibility-wise if you decide to keep him, if maybe you have to move somebody else along, or if you have to make a decision to go in another direction.
“There are pluses and minuses to both of those strategies. There’s no one right way to do it. But we’re going to all think about it and we’ll come up with the right decision.
“I’ve tried to say this all along. You know, one guy does not make a team here,” Bowman said. “We’ve got a lot of great players and we’re going to be ready come October to defend the Cup and we’re going to work on making sure we get it right.”
The entire organization? Announcers to office aides? I knew you were connected, but this level of access is unprecedented. Tim S. would be well advised to consult you before writing articles.
/sarcasm
Anyhoo, Dallas (that's the crumby Dallas Stars to be clear) decided to roll the dice on Kari Lehtonen's groin and conditioning rather than commit any more of the organization's time and money to Turco between the pipes. And you think there's a chance that Bowman would prefer him to Niemi? Have you looked at Turco's history in Detroit? (against Detroit) And you think there's a chance that Turco is the guy Bowman wants between the pipes? This is some good and funny stuff, whiz . . .
Next time, for the real straight dope, talk to the bartenders in the Sonja Henie room . . .
Lehtonen, another Finn with gre
Dear Shat Yer Pantz:
Stick to posting your own tripe. Don't clumsily cut and paste other posts.
Your multiple personality disorder is troubling enough, and it's amzing the moderators here have yet to cut you loose.
Whiz, I can only imagine where you will go with this, and if you are going to make accusations, at least offer up some evidence . . . it's the least you can do if you are going to go the route of character assassination . . .
Best always . . .
Why do you and Jeff call him Whiz and not Wiz? I'm just asking.........
Why do we both post messages that contain the letter "r"?
I tend to mutate people's handles . . . sometimes intentionally, sometimes not.
I've twice been accused (by Whiz, despite his protestations to the contrary) of having multiple handles here. Once it was because my post and "angs" showed up in succession. (What are the odds of that happening?)
Now, Whizzer has taken to insinuating Shat-His-Pants and I are somehow connected, and I'm awaiting his explanation. Could be that you have nailed it here with the mysterious and possibly unnecessary "h."
I've had a few scraps around these parts, but never have I taken to making accusations that I cannot back up . . . seems fair . . . I don't know. . . . some of the elders play by different rules.
I'm beginning to see what you were talking about Wiz.
Why didn't they sign and trade him instead of walking away. At least they might have got a pick back in return or are they trying to do him a favor so he can go out and get more than the 2.75mil?
My people tell me they ( The Blackwawks ) didn't care for Neimi, it seems he has rather poor manors and terrible hygein. I noticed this immediatly, of course, and new it would be a problem. His breath was very offensive and he eats with his hands. Not good for an NHL goalie. These reflect on his dedication not only to himself, but Jesus the almighty and the avg fan such as your self.
Me, Reg and Whiz saw it coming. So we couldn't let you and everyone else know because we are bound by honor and our word. Reg Dunlp does get a little mumbly after a few pink squirls and possibly a mai tai, so we were worried about that. Nothin to worry about with Truco back there, we still have the "core" too.
Every single team in the NHL knows the Hawks are up against the wall with the cap, hence no team was apparently willing to trade for Niemi when they knew full well that Bowman would have little choice but to let him walk away. Plus I suspect there is no team in the league prepared to pay him $2.75 million in 2010-11. Maybe he gets a multi-year deal out of somebody, but I'll bet the ranch the average salary comes in less than the amount awarded for one season by the arbitrator.
When a deal couldn't be struck before the arbitration hearing, then Niemi's fate was sealed. Its as simple as that. The Hawks did everything humanely possible to try and make Niemi into the equation. But at $2.75 million? That math doesn't fit folks.
Those of you bashing Bowman are fools. He's managed this offseason to near perfection given the ugliness that was going to be with the cap. The only move that might have been prevented was letting Andrew Ladd go. But then again there was no way Bowman could predict what was going to happen until this date of August 2nd. So all things considered I give Bowman a solid grade of "A" for how he has handled this thing.
2010-11 is a transition year. Deal with it. We have a Stanley Cup and the longer-term future of this club is exceptionally bright. Brighter in fact that just about any team in the NHL.
Bowman did a great job with the mess of the Hawks. He got a lot of great prospects to help restock the team and he kept the core together. The Hawks that play the big minutes and put up the points are still around, and so many of their young guys, like Dowell, Skill, and Bickell are affordable to bring up and fill in roles.
Bowman completely got played by Wilson on that move. Hammer is solid but he is getting paid the same money as Seabs due to the offer sheet by Wilson. The hawks could've probably offered him an extension for at least a mil less than that during the season. I hope that Niemi signs with the sharks. It will be great theatre for the upcoming year, especially if the 2 teams meet in the playoffs.
I'll give Bowman the benefit of the doubt but he should just keep the mouth closed for a little while. At the draft (even though everyone knew he was full of it) said that our cap problems were solved and we don't need to make any more moves. Then he deals Ver Beauty and Ladder. After the Ladd move, he says that Hammer and Niemi are staying and that no one ever presents an offer sheet. Offer sheet was presented, overpaid to keep Hammer and Niemi is gone. I know that pops is pulling the strings but please find the mouth string for the future.
that when Bowman couldn't get Hjalm signed before Jul 1, that they would be vulnerable to an offer sheet & ultimately that ended up costing them Niemi.
If Hjalmarsson had signed with say Florida, I think Bowman may have taken the (potentially high) picks back & opted to keep Niemi instead, but he couldn't let West rival SJ strengthen their D with underrated Hjalmarsson while weakening his own, so he was forced to match & and have little cap room left to sign Niemi.
Overall, I think Bowman did as well as he could under the circumstances, but the team has taken a big hit in terms of experience & chemistry & it is going to take a while for them to mesh, to see what the new guys bring and how they fit in.
There will be a lot of pressure on the "vets" to lead the team early on - in particular Hossa & Campbell, (the main reasons for the hawks cap problems), will be the focus, especially if the hawks struggle out of the gate & those two guys under-perform.
The loss of the 4th line (Eager, Fraser & Burish) wasn't insurmountable, but losing a good 3rd line in Byfuglien, Ladd & Versteeg imo will be - I think some are underestimating the contributions these guys made to the team's overall success the past couple of seasons, especially in the playoffs & it will be a big challenge for the new guys to replace them - I look to Brouwer, Bickell & Stalberg as the key 3rd line guys who will need to step up for the hawks to hope to contend this season. If one of the new kids (Morin, Beach, etc. ) can surprise & make an impact, obviously the chances for success improve, but that can't be counted on to happen.
The D looks in reasonable shape - I like that they were able to bring Boynton back at a significant pay cut - he & Hendry provide depth, experience & continuity so I think they'll be ok there.
I think the biggest loss however will be felt in goal - Turco is a smaller goalie past his prime - he'll be better than Huet, but not as good as Niemi was and I doubt Crawford will be as effective in the backup role as Niemi was last year. It will take the D & the new goaltenders a bit of time to adjust to each other, but the hawks have now turned over their top 3 goaltenders (khabi, huet & niemi) in two years, including the guy who helped them win a cup. That is not a recipe for repeating, but I'm sure they're hoping they'll be able to overcome the loss in goal this year, like they were able to overcome the loss of Khabi last year.
I look for the team to try to get off to a fast start before hitting a bit of a wall with all the new guys they are trying to fit in, probably when they take their annual circus road trip. A 4th or 5th place finish in the West is likely, imo, as is a 2nd or 3rd round playoff exit. Detroit & Nashville will be tough as usual & St. Louis should be much improved with Halak. I think LA & Colorado are going to continue to get stronger, SJ will be there again (won't surprise me if Niemi ends up there), Vancouver will be in the mix and I think Edmonton will be much improved. I expect Phoenix & Anaheim to take a bit of a step back - Washington is my pick for the cup.
Its great the hawks won the cup last year, because I think it may be a while before they have enough cap maneuverability to avoid having to put together a bargain basement patchwork lineup and be one of the top favorites again.
I'll therefore defer to the rationale of Bowman and Coach Q on his value to the franchise going foward. People want to lament that Hammer can't score, but all I know is that he is awfully damned good already and is only 23. He was supremely important to what the Hawks do on the ice.
You're going to blame Bowman for not knowing that a team like San Jose was going to submit an offer sheet?!?!? Please. The Hawks sit at the top of the mountain right now and there is no team in the NHL who is going to sympathize with our cap plight. Doug Wilson put the screws to the Hawks out of nowhere, which if you are a San Jose fan is the absolute right thing for him to be doing.
Bowman did a great job, period. What people fail to accept is that the salary cap problems were absolutely HUGE. Compounded by the Catch-22 of Toews and Kane earning award money at the end of the season.
That the hammer deal messed this whole thing up.
I agree that Hammer is good but Bowman totally mucked it up. I find it funny that Niemi is greedy going from $800 to 2.75 but Hammer went from 650k to 3.5 mil. Bowman got played bad on that one.
He's better than Seabs.
Seabrook is by no means a lock to be re-signed by the Hawks. In fact he is a good bet to become an ex-Hawk after next season because his salary demands will likely be out of line with what the Hawks can or should do. Hence again why signing Hammer was very important and why Bowman has done a very fine job of stockpiliing quality young talent in the minors.
He hasn't played better than Seabrook yet. Seabrook is much more physical and plays the tough minutes out there. Plus Seabrook has more offensive upside and seems to turn in on in clutch situations. He has so many overtime winners and it was his play against Vancouver that really sparked the game 2 comeback.
Hjalmarsson might get better, but Seabrook he is not.
Well, it looks like Doug Wilson's tactic won the day. I'd expect to see Niemi in a Sharks sweater by Wednesday.
Sharks signed a goaltender already and don't have a lot more cap to play with either. I'm willing to bet somebody will give Niemi more than the sharks are willing to pay.
All the other players we've lost, it was necessary. This one wasn't. There's gonna be one heck of a lot of angry fans. I would like to have seen what Niemi can do with a full year's load. If one of our core players has a career-ending injury, this move is gonna look really stoopit. Out of the three potentially huge loses--Buff, Versteeg, and Niemi--Niemi is the one player who had the potential to be a franchise type guy. The other two also have huge potential up sides. All three could end up superstars, or average-plus players. But I'm thinking we'll really regret the loss of at least two of them. Sigh.
there was little chance that they were going to sign Niemi to an expensive new deal. For the most part, that has not been the Bowman way. I believe that even had the Hawks been more comfortably under the cap, they would have still chosen not to sign him. Looking ahead to next year, Seabrook is a major and vital signing. We can win with a serviceable netminder, so long as we maintain a fleet and skilled team in front of him. Don't you think the league should have forced Tallon to take the Huet contract with him to Florida?...
"Don't you think the league should have forced Tallon to take the Huet contract with him to Florida?..."
No. I think they should have forced McD to pay him out of his own pocket.
And re Seabrook, how many d-men do you think the Hawks need? Where are they gonna fit the new guys if Seabs is signed to a long term contract? Or do you expect Rocky to eat Campbell's contract as well? At this point, I think I'd rather see him traded for a high first round pick, especially if they change the icing rules. We need a big second line center.
Huet was never going to be part of the Blackhawk roster in 2010-11 no matter what. Therefore his salary due will not have one dime impact on the cap. Why people can't get this basic concept through their skulls is dumbfounding. The Huet contract hasn't impacted a single solitary move this offseason.
Huet's cap hit stays on the books until approx preseason start. It kept SB from doing much until he made that first trade, which was still just barely created enough cap room to make offers to his RFA's.
Unrelated,and FWIW, lets not forget Stan's statement that "Hjarlmarsson and Niemi aren't going anywhere." This is officially his first screw up. I sure hope we don't need to keep count.
Stan Bowman didn't screw up a damned thing. Keep count of whatever it is you want to keep count of. Bowman has done a masterful job given the circumstance handed to him with the cap. The core remains and he just signed Marty Turco to a bargain basement price of $1.3 million. Plus the minors are chocked full of future high ceiling talent.
You could go over the cap in the off-season, as some teams already are. You just have to clean it up prior to the season starting. When Huet goes to the minors or Europe, we're back under the cap.
Hey Whizzy, thank’s for the call this weekend glad I was able help. I just don’t like using western union for amounts more than $2,500. those clubs will drain ya my friend and the girls really don’t need that $$ for school books either, and yes I did have fun the Chelsea Clinton wedding. (details to follow) I’ll email you the pictures later buddy.
I’m super tied down with conference calls from Scotty , Niemi, Zito and Marty. I’m trying convince Marty he’s washed up and not worth a bag of pucks, & even though head a few good years, he’s a huge bust in the playoffs. while I’m slamming my fist on my pure black oak desk ( hand made by my people in South Africa) screaming at Neimi and Zito about taking the deal, since announced on this board apperantly he’s the next Hasak.
Busy weekend, busy day. Stay on task Whiz.. remember.
The Score is reporting that CK form the other paper in town says on Twitter that Hawks have confirmed that they are walking from Niemi and signed Turco to 1y deal.
Wonder why Hawks did not try to deal Niemi before arbitration.
Niemi will NOT get $2.75 as UFA....
They probably looked for trades before and after the hearing. NHL.com is reporting the same now. Walked away from Niemi and signed Turco... I didn't think this would happen, but I guess money is that tight.
Unfortunately, what we're experiencing is the cost of winning the Stanley Cup in today's NHL. You could pretty much guarantee that if the Hawks had lost in the 1st or 2nd round that none of this would be going on right now. Once guys add a Stanley Cup to their resume that immediately demands money. The fact that we had so many guys who were at the end of their contract spelled turnover.
As for Niemi, it's easy to look back at the trading deadline when EVERYONE was asking for a trade to help bolster our net. Bowman stood fast and decided to let Niemi man the pipes. Personally, I don't think this was because he knew Niemi was a fantastic goalie. I think in his mind he knew we had a great defense and that we could still win a cup with a goalie who was inexperienced and maybe not the best goalie available.
All you had to do was look at our shots against during the regular season to figure that one out.
Niemi may have a very bright future in front of him but considering our cap issues, I'd rather have a solid goalie who can work with our defense vs. overpaying someone just because they think they deserve a MONSTER raise.
I think the NHL would be doing themselves a favor if they put in place some sort of ceiling for raises with the players. As you increase your years of service your percentage for potential raises goes up. There's no way a rookie should be able to increase his salary by 200%.
The only drama left is whether the Hawks sign and trade him, or simply wave bye-bye today. Marty Turco will be between the pipes in 2010-11 in what can most objectively be called a "TRANSITION YEAR" for this team. Never been a Turco fan, but hopefully he has one year left in the tank. The goaltending situation could turn out okay, or it could be a clusterfu*k. But at any rate the Hawks are pointing to 2011-12 before the first puck of next season even drops. That's not to say the Hawks won't be solidly competitive this upcoming season, but...
No way do they let Niemi leave the reservation freely to sign with the Sharks or Wings so sign and keep or sign and trade are the two decisions to choose from. I suspect it will be sign and keep, at least for this next season. Then this gets replayed again next year with a Seabrook decision thrown in for fun. I keep seeing Turco's name mentioned but didn't he just turn down a 2 million a year offer from the Flyers? If so why would he sign here for 1.5 or 1.75? Turco's not worth more than that plus you're better off with Niemi at that small difference in salary since he's liable to be here a while beyond this season, where Turco is not.
This salary cap stuff is a pain. I know there are a few cumbersome deals on the books but what really killed this team was the fact that so many young players panned out so fast. It is rare in any sport to see 7-8 guys under 25 grow into big bucks players on one team at the same time. It won us the Cup which is a great thing but with the cap in place it doomed any longterm roster stability.
Speaking of which, Capgeek says a Huet buyout will cost the Hawks 1.875 million against the cap for the next four years.....ugh.
Love this string and shows Hawks fans are the most knowledgeable of all. All good points made here. Against the backdrop of Huet's $5+ million contract, it's hard to fault Niemmi for wanting $3 or $4 million. But did he win that many games for us that you'd take him over Seabs for the future? Remember when we all thought we COULD NOT win the cup with our goaltending this year? Was it D or Niemmi? Where was he in Philly. I dread the propect of giving away another Hasek, but I can't say I would fault Stan either way he goes with this decision.
but if Bowman can sign Turco for 1.5 then maybe they can bring Madden back for the pk at 1 mil to 1.25. This will at least temper the frustration a little bit. I still want Niemi back though. 2.75 mil is a reasonable hit for a guy that has yet to hit his prime and has played well in some big time pressure games. With a difference of 1.25 between him and Turco, I'll lean towards the guy that has proven it in the must win games and is wearing the ring.
I think Niemi is gone. If they were going to keep him I think they would have said so by now especially with the convention going. I can see both sides of keeping him or trading him and at 2.7 mil I don't know if they would have to move Sharp to keep Niemi. Now everyone should be able to see why the Hawks stuck with Huet so long last season. They didn't want Niemi to win the job for exactly what were seeing play out right now. In the end they had no choice because of the way Huet was playing. No way they win the cup with Huet in goal.
monday morning I will fire Zito and do the deal with the Hawks.2.7-3.3 and 4.0 egual 10 millions for tree years not bad considering in the near futur big contract for goal keeper will not be as much.plus a very good chance to win another Stanley cup with the boys,even a Vezina and a very good chance to play for a champion team for yearsssssss.Chicago can not afford to sign him for only one year.If he want to leave fine,it's up to him,good luck.It's a gamble choyce for an N.H.L.players.Let say his going to a poor team next year and don't make the playoffs,how much he will be able to ask for his next contract ?THANKS to Zito,poor choyce...
and you can say bye bye to Sharp or Bolland. Sorry, but TWO centres AND very solid 2-way players are each more valuable to the team that had the best shot differential in the entire NHL this past season.
Which is exactly why the 'Hawks did not do a deal like this, especially in light of the Hjalmarrson match of SJ's offer sheet.
From everything I'm hearing, Niemi will be gone. Now with that said, they have to sign him and trade him. It would be utterly rediculous for them to just walk away from him without getting anything in return.
So,like I said before, Washington needs a goalie. Send him there or any other team in the east. Just don't let that grubby , backstabbing Doug Wilson nab him.
With the way the Hawks have always made a deal out of bringing players in, or announcing their signings, I have to believe they're going to let him go. It would've made too much sense to agree to the arbitraitor, and bring in Niemi for the final day of the convention, and announce that he'd be back for the season. Especially after losing so many players already. It would've been a great way to end the convention.
By dragging this out, regardless of the "staff" reason, it only leads me to think that they're avoiding a potential backlash from fans announcing that they're not going to match, or that they're going to trade him.
Tough spot, all around. Hate losing him, but we'd probably lose him next year. Still trying to figure out how we'll get Seabs under for next season.
him with this 2.75 mil deal,and then during the season work on a contract extension?
In the end,to be honest,I like they guy,good goalie with his limited experience,but he isnt worth the 4 mil Zito was askin for,and I am a firm believer that the goalie era in the nhl is over....Ward Giguere Osgood Fleury Niemi-those are the last four goalies that won cups with their teams,those guys arent Vezina material,or at least they haven't been so far...Rinne Kipper Miller Vokoun all much better goalies yet between them,0 cups...
Send niemi to washington,he'd get killed,his stats would go down the drain
On another topic,anyone think Stalberg could be a good as Steeger,or LAdd?
But they have to be careful and not work themselves into a corner with Seabrook and Brouwer both being FA's at the end of the 10-11 season.
Stalberg I believe can be another player like Sharp; quick, good shot and solid in all 3 zones. He won't be as physical as Ladd but should be smarter with the puck in all 3 zones than Versteeg.
will continue for the Hawks with or with out him. If they keep him for this year he is gone as an UFA next year. No way he signs a multi year with the Hawks.
Obviously Hawk management know their options better than any of us or any media "expert" but I don't see how keeping him for this year makes any sense.
Sign and trade him out east. With the Caps he will get shelled every game.
This is what you get when the rules in the CBA in the NHL stink.
The Hawks stink for years and years. Then build through the draft and win the SC.
Now after only 2 years of this team being together the Hawks are forced to dimantle 25-30% of the team because under the CBA young players with as little as 1 stinking year of service are entiltled to millions of dollars.
The NHL needs to do something with the CBA that will allow NHL teams to keep their own talent or limit the HUGE jump in salaries after 1 year.
Campbell and Huet were overpaid. Five QO's were screwed up last June, most namely Versteeg and Barker. Buff & Sopel were also overpaid. Many of those guys are gone now, along with over $10M in cap savings. Some folks this time last year even argued Bolland was overpaid on a 5 yr deal worth $3.375M a year (he was not part of the QO issue). He then was out significant time with a back issue. Turns out that deal looks OK now but you can't come near a $3.375M a season average for all your players.
No one is entitled to any specific monies. It's the GM's that draft guys high that do this, the CBA doesn't demand it. Like other aspects of the payroll EL deals have to be carefully handled. It's why a guy like Beach likely will not make the 'Hawks roster because of his $1.2M cap hit in his EL deal.
under arbitration rules. But even if it were, Niemi wouldn't do it. He's got the money now, and he'll be a UFA after one year. At least you know that Niemi is going to be at his best this year given his contract situation. I say keep him and preserve your options.
From 800 grand rising to 2.75 mil doesn't sound like that much of a pay cut. Sounds more like a hold-up...
There is no point to keeping niemi. he will be gone after 1 year since the hawks will not have the money to re-sign him. Looks to me like either sharp or seabrook is gone after this year
If the Hawks can sign Turco and trade Niemi to Washington for G Michal Neuvirth or to Philly for G Brian Boucher, then they would have a better goale tandem than Niemi with G Corey Crawford (who I will never forget the play last year when he roamed out to the faceoff circle for the puck turning it over for a goal). I've seen many of his games in Rockford, and think that Crawford is a career backup at best whereas Neuvirth has Number 1 potential and Boucher has been a Number 1. It would also save the Hawks 1.1 to 1.2 million to be spent elsewhere.
Wonder where everyone gets the notion that Turco is a cheaper option. Seems to me he turned down a 2 million dollar offer from the Flyers. Is it posted somewhere that he will settle for less? That said, I do believe there are hard feelings by the Blackhawks in general, front office as well as some of the players. Agent Zito was quoted as saying it wasn't Niemi's value the team was disputing, it was all about the salary cap. If so, why put his team in the position where it may be neccessary to drop other team members to satisfy his salary demands. If he's not interested in having the strongest team possible in front of him, it certainly makes the Niemi camp look like it doesn't particularly care where it plays, or how good the team is, as long as the loot keeps coming. Just think. This all could have been avoided if the team offer was accepted, and as it turns out, wasn't that far off the arbitrator award.
Turco and Bowman supposedly have a verbal agreement for 1 year at 1.5 million IF the Hawks decide to walk away from Niemi.